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Road to JLA Rebirth: JLA (Part 5)

Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:07 am
by Agent DC
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Written by: Steve Orlando
Art by: Ivan Reis, Joe Prado, Oclair Albert & Marcelo Maiolo

We start off at Happy Harbour Where Batman is showing Frost the new base of Operations hidden in the underground. He tells her that the base he brought her to is a relic from a bygone era and his decided to put its potential to good use. She asks why and reminds her that she reminded him that people deserve a second chance and he agrees with the statement. He tells her that they both need second chances (this is probably your 19th) and anyone can be a hero. Caitlin realises that the base is too big for the two of them and asks who next.
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We move to Seattle where Frost and Black Canary are fighting. Caitlin tells her that she doesn’t understand why she’s there and Canary tells her that she knows enough and hits her with a cry. Dinah asks what’s she doing in Seattle if she isn’t hurting people or to fight her. Frost corrects her by pointing out that she was fighting back since she swung first and they didn’t come to fight. She notices Batman and weirdly gets territorial for a few minutes since she demands to know why he brought a killer to her city (first I find it odd that she’s giving my city lip to batman despite operating in Gotham from the beginning of the New 52 with him not demanding what she’s doing in Gotham. Second I know she was with the Arrow crew but the fact that she doesn’t have a return address in Seattle (her and Ollie live in a tree house) and if Batgirl & BOP has shown, she still lives in Gotham. And Last why do they keep on why to put characters who move around in grey morality get placed on a high horse when they do the same things since she rolled with the League of Assassins, Poison Ivy and Waller). Bats tells her that he trusts Frost and the reason why there in Seattle is to recruit her for a new team of mortals, not “gods” (this will be talked about in my thoughts). He tells Canary that she works hard and doesn’t care who disagrees and he needs someone to be their conscience.

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We move to Mammoth City, Jersey, were Lobo gets involved in a bar brawl and a local space bar. During the Scuffle, Lobo gets thrown through a window and notices Canary. She tells him that it’s time to do his job and he tells her that he’d rather go back to his crater. She reminds him that he promised Batman and he tells her to get Bats to say it himself. She calls out his so called honour and trash talks him thinking there wasn’t a point to asking him. He tells her that her word doesn’t mean a damn to the main man and tells her to lead the way while telling her they aren’t that different.

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Over at Ivy University, Ryan where the dean tells him to not return until he finds Ray Palmer. He uses the bio-belt to travel to the lab via Wi-Fi and wonders who Batman and Lobo are. Batman tells him that this is Ray Palmers lab and he has his belt and demands to know who he is. Ryan tells them his name and how he was Ray and the Atom assistant. He reveals that Ray disappeared a while back and his been looking for him. Disappointed Batman decides to leave. Lobo tells him to wait as he goes to Ryan’s chalkboard and asks if the equations are his. He reveals that his trying to put updates on the bio-belt and Lobo tells him that it isn’t bad for a human. Lobo tells Batman to take the kid with them and Batman refuses to put another child in danger (your training Duke and persisting Harper to join the team in Detective, your stance is shaky at best). Lobo points out that he isn’t as Ryan is an Adult (easily over 21 if him and Ray go to a bar in America) and should be allowed to make his own mistakes (more on this later).

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Vanity City, Oregon, The Ray is on patrol and realises that he has one message on his cell. His lover, Eric, sends a message that he feels they are moving too fast and wants space. He gets a surprise when Ryan bursts out his phone and they introduce themselves. Ryan tells him that he didn’t mean to surprise them and tells him that Batman sent him to make him an offer. Ray is sceptical as he is only new to the scene but Ryan points out that’s exactly why he wants them both (Lobo had to knock him off his angst horse first Ryan). Ray asks if he can really work in a team and Ray tells him that he’ll be fine.

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Over in Manhattan, Roxy Rocket is causing Mayhem on the streets until Vixen stops her. The paparazzi asks her if she’s doing the Vixen thing as she and an officer talk about an artefact Roxy was trying to use. Before there talk continues, she switches to wait and excuses herself to deal with a rat. She flies over to a roof with Batman and is surprised to see him during the day (she must not watch Superhero news; he’s been out in the day plenty of times). Batman came to asks her again to join up again and she tells him that he already knows the answer as she can barely keep up with her commitments as it is. She tells him that people don’t want this from her and want her model self as they see her heritage as a hobby. Bruce confesses that he always respected her and he needs someone with her level of commitment and they are nothing without her. Mari smiles as she wanted to hear that. He tells her that it’s time to meet the others and hands over a transmission token for their teleporters. He tells her to hold on as he takes her to the mountain base at Happy Habour.

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They find the team is disorganised as Lobo is pissing everyone of while trying to get a rise out of Caitlin’s time to feed since he claims that she’s eyeing up The Ray. Batman tries to get him to sit down with a glare but decides to Stand to try and piss batman off. He tells everyone that Frost is one of them now and tough her circumstances don’t wash away her crimes despite her tragedy, she wants to rebuild herself after helping the League stop Eclipso. He tells them that they are all there to rebuild themselves and open themselves to the people they protect. Canary calls out that open isn’t his things and he points out that something bigger than him is coming. He talks about how the world needs heroes they can know, not gods (this at the end), to show that they can heroes themselves. He tells them that heroism is a community and it starts with the Justice League of America. We end with a glimpse of what to expect from this volume as Lobo and the Ray are going to square off, Frost seems to be on paradise island, Batman has Liberties shield and Ryan is in the micro-verse wondering If a hooded figure with a bio-belt is Ray Palmer.

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Road to JLA Rebirth: JLA (Part 5)

Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:13 am
by Agent DC
Thoughts

This was an interesting rebirth, while it just intro and could've started with Lobo since he is technically the first/second recruit from JL vs SS but that ok I guess. Ivan Reis art raised the story though the faces felt off at points but was consistent for the most part.

The only down side was letting Canary and Frost fight because it felt dickish to send Caitlin to get her assed kicked since Canary apparently is going to be the talk later type if this continues. Him trying to keep Ryan safe feels hollow since his still putting Duke in the same position and keeps on trying to get Harper back in the game and they are both underage teens while Ryan is someone around Dick's age range. Plus wouldn't it make more sense to at least help Ryan to help Ray so that Ray can help him? Also the Moreton s god analoge doesn't feel right to me. If his trying to say the original league are gods then that's ridiculous. Simon and Jess ahead advanced tech, and that's common knowledge, help both in universe and real life, young girls are looking up to her since they no longer have to doubt if being a GL is male exclusive. Dc rebirth showed that Flash is a man of the people, he helps the fire departments and reconstruction crews, he Spends Xmas eve delivering presents to all the orphans in central.

Arthur and Mera hang up at amnesty bay,
They went to his highschool reunion and everyone treated him like he hadn't left, recently helped rebuild the city and his fight with a shaggy bloke. And as far as I've seen, everyone fucking smiles when they see the S on clarks chest, not in fear of if his going to Brno them or have violent super sex with Diana. Frost says she was inspired by him during SS vs JL. Just read year one of WW.

Then this new team is only a third normal and that's Ryan and Batman. In the middle you have vixen who uses animal magic powers and black canary an ex-black ops hand to hand martial artist who has sonic powers who is a famous rock star. Then the worst; the ray is a light elemental, frost is a heat vampire with high level cryo powers and Lobo is an alien bounty hunter who comes back from anything. This gods vs mortal talk just makes me think of the Early days when everyone was trying to make the league feel
Like dictators in the making

8/10

Road to JLA Rebirth: JLA (Part 5)

Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:55 pm
by ARB
Yup, Batman continues to be quite good in every non-Batman related book, which makes you wonder what in the hell is the Bat office doing at this point. I really liked this issue. The team has 3 of my top 5 all times favorite DC characters, Batman, Black Canary, and Vixen. I loved Bruce and Vixen, while Canary left something to be desired. I think she should be more level headed than that. I'm liking Killer Frost, and seeing Lobo being Lobo once again is a delight. I didn't care much for Atom and Ray to be honest, but I guess they're there. Although I liked how Atom was riding a flying Batarang thrown by Batman on the alternate cover, kind of like the infamous Hawkeye/Ant-Man maneuver.

Back to Batman. This is a Batman that makes sense to me. A Batman who's showing signs of growth by realizing that he needs to be a part of the larger Superhero community, and understands the need for the heroes to band together. Also, he shows empathy to villains and believes in redemption, although it appears he only just now realized after seeing Killer Frost's sacrifice in JLvsSS, which doesn't make much sense but I'll take what I can get. This is worth noting, because this Batman is everything the Batman from the Batman/Tec books isn't, which again begs the question of WTF is the Bat editorials doing exactly ? If this was Tom King's Batman, he would've most likely told every one to f*** off, and then went to cry on Catwoman's shoulder, because he's so scared and lonely and wants a razor to cut himself. I'm actually surprised DC didn't put Catwoman in the book, considering the recent developments from the Batman title, but I'm not complaining.

In any case, the Steve Orlando mentioned that the two main characters of the book are Batman and Vixen, and I'm happy with that. A good Justice League book with a great roster, and what looks like well written Batman makes this book a very easy sell for me. Hope the book delivers the quality that it promises. Oh also, while I generally do like the art, I'm not a big fan of the way Reis draws heads and faces. I'm still not sure what's wrong with Batman's eyes or why his head looks gigantic, and Canary looks a little bit off to me as well. Vixen, Frost and Lobo look great though.

Road to JLA Rebirth: JLA (Part 5)

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:26 am
by Dick Grayson(Age 12)
This new group Batman created should've been the Outsiders not the JLA. In any case, it's good seeing Batman not be a dick to everyone he meets.
ARB wrote:QR_BBPOST If this was Tom King's Batman, he would've most likely told every one to f*** off, and then went to cry on Catwoman's shoulder, because he's so scared and lonely and wants a razor to cut himself.
LOL. The inconsistency in how writers portray him is mind-boggling. On one comic, he's this compassionate individual who believes in the innate goodness within people. Next he's a hypocritical scumbag who condemns criminals saying they'll never change, and on the other one, he's a suicidal, emotionally unstable teenager who's willing to overlook murder for a nightly dose of wild rooftop sex.

Did the editors even read this?

Road to JLA Rebirth: JLA (Part 5)

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:30 pm
by ARB
Dick Grayson(Age 12) wrote:QR_BBPOST LOL. The inconsistency in how writers portray him is mind-boggling. On one comic, he's this compassionate individual who believes in the innate goodness within people. Next he's a hypocritical scumbag who condemns criminals saying they'll never change, and on the other one, he's a suicidal, emotionally unstable teenager who's willing to overlook murder for a nightly dose of wild rooftop sex.

Did the editors even read this?
Oh Batman's been like this for a while now, where he seems to be written in whatever way that benefits and suits the characters are around who the writers are actually trying to push. Batman in a story with a Robin? Then he'll act like a jerk to justify them taking matters into their own hands and becoming their "own hero". Batman in a story with Batwoman ? Then he'll be shown as an incompetent leader, so that Batwoman can show her badass military leadership skills. He's in a story with Catwoman ? Then he'll act like a sniveling baby who's entire life is dependent on her love for him, and constantly make mistakes to give Catwoman the chance to act like a badass. This been the case for a while now, it's just that Rebirth kicked it up several notches, and now you can't find two books with Batman where acts with any consistency. You'd think it's the editors job to make sure stuff like this doesn't happen, but I think DC is far beyond caring about Batman at this point.

That's why I much prefer Batman to be with the Justice League and generally stay outside Gotham, because he tends to be written better when paired up with characters outside the Batman franchise ironically. So far in Rebirth, Batman's best portrayals came from Trinity and JLA, and if you really don't try to think about it too much, he was generally OK in JLvsSS, minus that whole "criminals will always be criminals" mentality. Otherwise he's been written like garbage in every Batman book, with All*Star being the lesser evil among the Bat books, and Tom King's Batman being the absolute worse. That's one of the major reasons I've been hoping for BMWW to happen, because I know Bruce will be written A LOT better with Diana than he's with Catwoman, and this is even before reading King's garbage run. Still if there's any silver lining here, is that Batman is being written well in some capacity. After watching Batman grow more distant during the New 52, it's great to see books like JLA working to undo that, even if the Bat books are trying to completely undermine that.

Road to JLA Rebirth: JLA (Part 5)

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:15 pm
by ThatOneGuy
WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH BATMAN RIGHT NOW
Like seriously how did we get to this point? i have notice that batman not just as a character but as a franchise have been going down hill for a while now Scott Snyder is not necessarily responsible for this i thought he did well with his batman run nothing spectacular but he kept the lights on at dc for 5 whole years while he and Greg were on the main Batman book their was a sense of peace, the next issue may not be the best thing in the world but you knew it wasn't going to be garbage he manage to make batman sell above 100k consecutively and the man deserves respect for that hell i will even go as far as to say his batman run was the only reason dc didn't kill of the new 52 entirely, it is the only real long standing success they could actually point to out of the new 52 Era(kinda like ultimate Spider-man out of the ultimate universe) and here we are now with the main batman book dropping in sales like hell and all the Batman books are mediocre and selling poorly how did we get here and how do we fix it?

HOW WE FIX THE PROBLEM
As with any problem we have to be true to ourselves and admit the problem and the problem is neglect and franchising. Neglect is pretty evident in modern Batman comics not in that DC doesn't care about the character(he still makes them money after-all) but they don't care about how the character is portrayed and how to make sure he evolves and keep selling books, DC seems to have the idea that Batman doesn't need to change and that people will buy his books no matter what I remember one of my Favorite You-tuber Joel over at CapedJoel saying that Tom King doesn't like Batman and he is stealthily taking the piss out of him and while I may not agree with him entirely I understand how he came to that conclusion Tom King writes batman as a shadow of himself as if to parody the character and his existence and DC just doesn't care for some reason because they think that Batman is too big to fail which lets face it Tom King wont "kill" Batman as a character but that doesn't mean that what he and by extension DC is doing to the character is OK.

Now on to franchising this is a much bigger problem that most don't want to admit even some of you will defend it in some capacity but I believe this is what is hurting Batman as a character more than anything. Batman and his world is just stretched too thin between too many characters that is just a fact. DC needs to kill of some of Batman's supporting characters or spin them off into being their own heroes if DC thinks they are so great that they could hold their own books and I don't mean like having countless Bat related books I mean cut them lose and let them fend for themselves just like Knightwing said he wanted to be his own man then let him stand on his own that mean no munching on Daddy dearest and "borrowing" villains, other supporting characters and most of all no guest appearances and this goes for Batwoman and all the others as well because lets face it the only reason those characters stay relevant is because they are tied to Batman not because of their own merits if DC cut the ties between Kate Kane and Batman and have her star in her own series without Batman character and without Bat in the name she wouldn't last a year same goes for all those robins Jesus Christ their is like 5 of them, the Bat family needs to be trimmed down and most of all they need to start acting like "Supporting" characters that is the biggest issue, the fact that Batman is treated like a side character in his own Book's and in his own world, you don't see Superman playing second fiddle to any of his supporting character in his world I have no idea why Batman has to. That was A lie I know exactly why he has to, because DC wants to have him prop up other characters and in doing so they distribute every thing good and unique about the character to other less import supporting characters like Batman's Humanity is sacrificed to make Knightwing look good, His Knowledge of the Acult and Pulp Mystic roots is sacrificed to make Batwoman serve a purpose, His intellect and detective skills are sacrificed to make Tim Drake special and His Warrior monk and Martial arts Know how are Sacrifice to make Cassandra Cain serve a purpose and so one it is crazy the lengths DC will go to to keep these characters around and on one hand I can understand why because these characters are important to some people but you have to let go of the past to move forward and Batman as a character is burdened with his past the most he haven't evolved in any meaningful way since the 70/80es ever time someone comes along and push the character outside his normal box like Grant Morrison did at the end of his run Hell even Snyder did it too at the end of Super-heavy then DC and the next writer regress him to being a one note brooding sociopath again to make sure nothing ever changes and they can franchise him to death and now he is finally showing signs of actually Dying

NOW WITH ALL THAT SAID HOW DO YOU FEEL AND WHAT SHOULD BE DONE TO COMBAT THIS ISSUE

Road to JLA Rebirth: JLA (Part 5)

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:56 pm
by ARB
Man I couldn't agree more with everything you said. You pretty much read my exact thoughts and expressed them better than I ever could. The fact that the Rebirth Bat books made me miss the New 52 days is telling of how terrible things are. Although if the sales are truly falling significantly, that would actually be amazing. I'm not keeping up with the sales figures for DC comics, but last time I checked Tom King's Batman was selling great, as if it inherited the sales of Snyder's run. However if the numbers are truly falling that would be a god send, as that hopefully will force DC to reevaluate the way they're handling Batman's character.

DC's problem is that they don't understand WHY Batman is as successful as he is. It's clear that the higher ups at DC can't fathom how a normal guy in a Bat suit is more interesting to the majority of the people than a guy who flies into space and shoot lasers out of his eyes. That's why they have no idea how to handle him or how to make sure he doesn't fall into a slump. That's why they just opted to freeze him in a bubble to make sure that whatever it's that's working about him doesn't go away, all while exploiting his popularity to prop up other characters. It seems DC assumes that the people buying Batman books, will see let's say Batwoman or Catwoman making Batman look like an idiot and will go "WOW I WANT TO READ MORE OF THAT CHARACTER", which will help push the solo ongoings of other characters. That's why the Bat supporting characters don't act like supporting characters anymore, because the books that are supposed to be about Batman are reserved to promoting the side characters instead. That's why the Bat books read more like promotional pamphlets at this point, with Batman as the celebrity endorsement. Of course with the exception of Nightwing (who took YEARS to get to where he is today), this tactic has yet to work, and all characters tend to lose momentum whenever they leave for their solo books. It happened with both Batwoman and Catwoman before, and it will continue to happen, because using Batman as a short cut to create successful characters simply doesn't work.

Also, it's clear that many of the writers who come to the Bat books don't really care for Batman himself that much. Tynion and Bennett are clearly much more interested in Tim/Batwoman then they're in Batman, and I think Tom King might have an unhealthy obsession with Catwoman. The "Rooftops" two parter read more like crappy fanfiction than anything written by a professional writer. I think King quite possibly instead of using his hands to write, opted to pull out his d***, run it over the keyboard and handed the resultant script to the artist. Of course the question of "How the hell does the Bat office allow any of the to happen ?" still remains. It's clear that the extended Bat family, an element that used to be a point of strength of the Batman franchise, is now one of the aspects killing the character. The solutions are obvious, but DC will never go for them. The obnoxiously loud fanbases for the side characters will never allow these characters to be distanced from Batman as they know that will slowly kill them and cause them to fade away. Why else do you think the Catwoman fanbase vehemently support her relationship with Batman, despite how they simultaneously claim that she's the best thing that Batman has ? I especially loved how livid the Catwoman fans got when DC revealed she was bisexual, even though most of them seem happy to support Harley/Ivy. Anything to keep riding that Batman popularity train (riding...get it ?)

Road to JLA Rebirth: JLA (Part 5)

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:12 pm
by ThatOneGuy
Yep...Under Tom King's pen Batman is poised to sell less to 100k for the first time in years and people have been vocal in their dislike of the book so let see what DC does, I feel they will at least keep King on until the next big Rebirth event so lets see what they do after that.

DC just desperately wants another Batman character to stick and become popular just like Harley and they will do anything to get it. I really hate people who say they only read Batman for his side characters I would want to see nothing more than them just getting their favorite character and leave Batman alone because their is always a bit of hypocrisy that goes into people who say Batman's side character are better than he is because all they care about is that their favorite look good at any cost and at the end of the day that is what is holding Batman back, the constant pandering to "Supporting" characters.

When writers want to prove that their characters are "Badass" all they have to do is write him or her being better than batman and fans of those characters always say that Batman is the one holding back their favorite character which is always funny to me.

Road to JLA Rebirth: JLA (Part 5)

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:13 am
by Dick Grayson(Age 12)
ThatOneGuy wrote:QR_BBPOST NOW WITH ALL THAT SAID HOW DO YOU FEEL AND WHAT SHOULD BE DONE TO COMBAT THIS ISSUE
Complete management overhaul.

Road to JLA Rebirth: JLA (Part 5)

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:17 am
by Dick Grayson(Age 12)
ARB wrote:QR_BBPOST I especially loved how livid the Catwoman fans got when DC revealed she was bisexual, even though most of them seem happy to support Harley/Ivy.
Fuck that piece of crappy attempt of making characters diverse. I'll NEVER accept that as canon material.

Road to JLA Rebirth: JLA (Part 5)

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:31 am
by ARB
Dick Grayson(Age 12) wrote:QR_BBPOST Fuck that piece of crappy attempt of making characters diverse. I'll NEVER accept that as canon material.
That's not the point. We are talking about how the fanbases for the Bat supporting characters whine and complain about Batman being boring and stealing the spotlight from their favorite characters, while simultaneously refusing to have their characters cut ties with him. Regardless if you liked having Selina being bisexual or not, the fact remains that the majority of her fans were up in arms against the decision, solely because it endangered her relationship with Bruce, seemingly out of realization that the relationship is the only thing keeping her relevant. I didn't care for the revelation myself, but it's not any different than having Harley, Ivy or even Diana be bisexual. It did however demonstrate the hypocrisy of the many people claiming to dislike Batman, while also remaining happy that their favorite character coasts on Batman's popularity to remain relevant.

Re: Road to JLA Rebirth: JLA (Part 5)

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:23 pm
by JennyMalin
More creativity is required and proper diversiveness. We are fond of the same stories and the same settings.
Perhaps employ more script writers.