Batman cameo in Wonderwoman / Stevie Wonder ERB

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Batman cameo in Wonderwoman / Stevie Wonder ERB

Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:15 am

Hardly romantic since Batman gets dissed but I find it funny how he somehow gets mentioned instead of Superman, which I think is the pairing that an average viewer would know of. 2 Bat references in something about Wonderwoman and Supes doesn't even get mentioned. Hey that's something. Is BMWW getting mainstream now?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7jL0NJ98Nc
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Ddlo18
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Batman cameo in Wonderwoman / Stevie Wonder ERB

Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:46 pm

Lol I love it, though it's an odd matchup IMO. Gotta give this one to Stevie Wonder, was just roasting from the first verse.

And I do believe BM/WW is becoming more mainstream, if WBs keeps going in that direction.
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Batman cameo in Wonderwoman / Stevie Wonder ERB

Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:06 pm

Well any kind of exposure counts I guess XD Although I don't have any interest in ERB or even intend to listen to this one. Still any BMWW exposure for mainstream audience is good.
Ddlo18 wrote:QR_BBPOST And I do believe BM/WW is becoming more mainstream, if WBs keeps going in that direction.
It does seem that way, doesn't it ? Funny how WB/DC barely did anything noteworthy to support BMWW, aside from the light teasing we got in BvS, and the fact that Diana and Bruce are finally acting like themselves and interacting together normally in the comics. Not much if you think about it, especially not compared to how things were pre-New 52. To see this much support for BMWW just from the slightest hints we got of it merely being a possibility is really encouraging. It's nice to see that we're not the minority that we thought we were (or used to be).
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Batman cameo in Wonderwoman / Stevie Wonder ERB

Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:08 pm

HaHa.....Just say this too odd reference, definitely a Sub-conscience choice if you ask me I think they just did it because it was the first couple to come to mind regarding Wonder woman BvS might be the reason for that. As you said SM is always more prevalent in the mind of a non-comic book reader for obvious aesthetic reason but I don't think that will change when people think of "Super" heroes SM and WW come to mind because Batman doesn't fit that description for some so if a couple wants to go to lets say a Halloween party as "Super" heroes SM and WW will be the obvious choice.
Regarding the Battle itself(I thought Stevie Wonder Won) the references were on point plus that Run of with the first man bit was painfully true(odd we didn't get a Steve Trevor name drop) a lot of commentators seem to have a problem with the actress they got to play WW but I thought it was fine plus I always prefer a Tanned or darker WW anyway.
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Batman cameo in Wonderwoman / Stevie Wonder ERB

Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:28 pm

When it comes to non comic fans, I usually find that people are usually aware of one comic book pair, and thats Lois and Clark. And occasionally BMCW. So I dont think the mind automatically goes to Superman romance when it comes to her. Tho ppl seem to have trouble grasping the point, I hear/see a lot of "so she is like a lesser superman" comments.
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Batman cameo in Wonderwoman / Stevie Wonder ERB

Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:00 pm

They both got "Wonder" in the name, so that's probably the link they're checking out. And yeah, it is a little unusual that they spot-check Batman instead of big blue. It does suggest a strengthening of their affiliation in the public mind. I think that the DCAU generation coming to adulthood is also helping, because you have people coming into the industry who don't think the idea is all crazy, and the people with money to buy tickets and stuff also are more exposed to the idea, so I think that's been a beach-head for Wonderbat, I think.
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Batman cameo in Wonderwoman / Stevie Wonder ERB

Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:15 pm

Shame the battle kind of sucked. It's really not one of their best, then again, I could be a bit biased because the Ash vs. Darwin one was so awesome.

The only thing that kind of annoyed me wqas the Christian Bale Batman image. I can't see him as Batman anymore and especially when Wonder Woman is involved in it at all. the Nolan-verse doesn't work for me with the rest of the DC universe existing around it.
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Batman cameo in Wonderwoman / Stevie Wonder ERB

Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:21 pm

PirateGhost wrote:QR_BBPOST And yeah, it is a little unusual that they spot-check Batman instead of big blue. It does suggest a strengthening of their affiliation in the public mind. I think that the DCAU generation coming to adulthood is also helping, because you have people coming into the industry who don't think the idea is all crazy, and the people with money to buy tickets and stuff also are more exposed to the idea, so I think that's been a beach-head for Wonderbat, I think.
You know what, I think this has to do more with the fact that SMWW completely failed to capture the attention of the general public, despite DC's numerous attempts to have it catch on, than anything related to BMWW gaining more visibility. I think BMWW has always been the more familiar and natural relationship to most people who're not huge comic book readers, and BvS only strengthened that notion.

I've always thought that BMWW happening was really just a matter of time, as the idea is too big to fade away, has more than a few supporters working at DC already (funny how the couple of attempts to make BMWW a thing were made by WW writers), and is tied to one of the most influential and loved animated shows in recent history, so it was just a matter of time until someone took a serious stab at it. However, I'm still not convinced that DC would try it anytime soon unless 1) The DCEU goes in that direction and ends up forcing their hands, or 2) A few writers at DC start aggressively pushing for it. I really hope the large amount of buzz around BMWW ends up encouraging DC to seriously give it a try (and let it go on for 5 years. If SMWW can go that long, BMWW deserve the same >.<)
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Batman cameo in Wonderwoman / Stevie Wonder ERB

Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:16 pm

MTVCCVC wrote:Ash vs. Darwin one was so awesome.
Darwin destroyed Ash's life with that last line. And really the entire time I thought Ash was winning but Darwin unleashed it.

And ARB if SM/WW gets five years, I think it's only fair we get 50 lol.
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Batman cameo in Wonderwoman / Stevie Wonder ERB

Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:42 pm

I don't know if its just me having a lower opinion of non-comic book audience but I don't think BM/WW come natural to them I think SM/WW comes more naturally to most people who don't have a firm grasp on the character. I believe if you had a picture of both Batman and Superman and ask a average bystander who is Wonder woman's lover Superman would win by a big margin most people don't even see Batman as a "Superhero" so to speak but hey that might just be me.

I think the only reason BM/WW caught on was due to people seeing it and liking it rather than it feeling "Preordained" the DCAU put the idea in the minds of most and BvS made it look seamless and cool to the point that most didn't even questioned it, but with that said I do think big fans of both Batman and Wonder woman see it that's why most celebrated Wonder woman writer and artist are big fans of it except Gail Simone whom arguably doesn't get or like Batman and some just play ignorant to the Idea for various reasons.
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Batman cameo in Wonderwoman / Stevie Wonder ERB

Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:33 am

unfortunately I don't think the metion of batman has anything to do with our bmww ship. It seemed to me more like a reference to that fact that both stevie and bats are blind.

Though any exposure is good exposure I guess.
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Batman cameo in Wonderwoman / Stevie Wonder ERB

Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:07 am

Ddlo18 wrote:QR_BBPOST And ARB if SM/WW gets five years, I think it's only fair we get 50 lol.
Only if man.........only if :(
ThatOneGuy wrote:QR_BBPOST I don't know if its just me having a lower opinion of non-comic book audience but I don't think BM/WW come natural to them I think SM/WW comes more naturally to most people who don't have a firm grasp on the character. I believe if you had a picture of both Batman and Superman and ask a average bystander who is Wonder woman's lover Superman would win by a big margin most people don't even see Batman as a "Superhero" so to speak but hey that might just be me.
You know what ? I think it's more complicated than that. In my experience, comic book readers tend to be against any changes in general, and considering most of them seem to only be able to remember the last 10 years or so, that's why you get people who vehemently defend Selina as the ONLY love interest for Bruce for example, as that's been the case for the past 10 years, and that's why to many it's untouchable at this point. Compare that with Lois/Clark which has been a thing for the past 70 years, and people got angry at first when DC killed it, but over time the protests died down, and many people came to accept SMWW as a reality despite how many people hate it. I realized this fact when people I've talked to kept claiming that BMCW is the literally the best relationship in DC and it should be untouchable because of its 75 years history (which is not even true), but at the same time claimed that SMWW is OK ignoring the fact that Lois and Clark been MARRIED for far longer than Bruce and Selina been in a relationship.

Point is, once an idea becomes "normal", the majority of comic book readers will defend it with their lives. The majority of comic book readers have no idea what ideas are good or what ideas are bad, they just want what's in front of them and lack the imagination to ask for anything else. That's why it's stupid of DC to constantly pander to the whims of the readers, at the cost of abandoning interesting new concepts and ideas. I'm not saying that all change is good or that the old ways are the only ways mind you. There are fundamental things that should always be kept, and things that can be changed, and it's up to the writers and editors to see which is which, not the loud minorities among the readers. The problem though is that DC can't be trusted with that, as they proved time and time again that they lack any understanding of their properties or what works about them...
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Batman cameo in Wonderwoman / Stevie Wonder ERB

Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:39 pm

ARB wrote:QR_BBPOST I realized this fact when people I've talked to kept claiming that BMCW is the literally the best relationship in DC and it should be untouchable because of its 75 years history (which is not even true), but at the same time claimed that SMWW is OK ignoring the fact that Lois and Clark been MARRIED for far longer than Bruce and Selina been in a relationship.
I see where you are coming from, but at the price of sounding like a fanboy I think one of the reason people accept SM/WW was that some readers don't see them as important and as worthwhile as Batman I know its a weird think to claim but the fact is no one gives a damn about Superman and Wonder woman comparing to Batman. You can gut WW history and legacy no one cares some even cheered saying its the best she have been and no one cares enough about Superman anymore as long as he is strong and can punch stuff his fans are fine, But if DC had done any of those drastic changes to Batman there would have been riots imaging Kevin Smiths reaction with that said it doesn't mean I don't care about these character I just think most Don't
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Batman cameo in Wonderwoman / Stevie Wonder ERB

Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:04 pm

Thats a good point, but I think the fans do care. Looking at the numbers the reboot helped only Batman. Who got a refresh while the others were rebooted. And all of the trinity got superstar writers. While Batman fans flocked to to the new but same character, the old fans of of the remainder of the trinity left and got replaced by people who overuse the word finally. Its kinda unfair to say they dont care. Case in point, I am a fan of both characters, and I care.
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Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:30 pm

The readers who don't think Diana and Supes are important are probably the ones who never liked them at all before, or at least didn't enjoy them the way they used to be (SuperGod fanboys for example, the same people who coincidentally really enjoy New 52 WW for some reason). Long time fans of both WW and Superman were pretty vocal about there dislike for the New 52 versions at the beginning. However after a while the opposition started to wane and the realization started to sit in that this is how things are now and there's no changing that. So I do believe the majority of comic book readers will eventually accept any idea that they've been hammered with, and over the time the majority will start to prefer the current status quo over any possible change.

On Batman, despite the fact that Selina has always had a flirty relationship with Bruce, the history of their relationship is pretty recent. Prior to HUSH, I don't remember hearing demands for Selina to become the official love interest for Batman, and overall her place in the Batman universe was nowhere near what it is today, and that's not for lack of exposure mind you. After HUSH happened however, and DC started its strategy of kicking out any potential love interest for Batman in favor of Selina, the idea of Selina as the ONLY viable love interest for Bruce started to get hammered down by DC and people started to accept it. Now after 10 years of that, Selina changed from being a cool villain with a flirty relationship with Batman into the single most important character in the Batman mythos, despite nothing in the comics supporting that, but that's how people's perception works. The Talia fans were outraged when Talia god constantly crapped on for Selina's sake, but DC persevered in their direction and the cries eventually died down.

So I don't think it's just because people are more familiar or care more for Batman, but that certainly helps, as it exasperates the effects that much quicker. My point is, DC should focus on doing what's right and what they believe would work, instead of constantly pandering to specific parts of the fandoms, as people will eventually accept anything, even shitty stuff like SMWW. However, they should listen to their writers and trust them enough to know what's good for these characters, and keep the suits away from interfering with the writing process.
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Batman cameo in Wonderwoman / Stevie Wonder ERB

Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:57 pm

I don't think many fans eventually accepted SMWW they just stopped reading the comics. The numbers for both Superman and Wonder Woman were pretty low by the end of the Nu52. People may get tired of constantly complaining and just vote with their wallets after a while. Which is what truly let to the demise of the SMWW status quo.
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Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:33 pm

I think SM/WW didn't sell because the comic itself was garbage, and the interest in these characters even before the crappy New 52 makeover wasn't strong to begin with, so putting them in a comic book together wasn't a good enough incentive for people to buy it. Add to that the old fans who left when the New 52 rolled in, and it's not hard to see why they didn't sell, although I do believe that the book managed to hook in new people who were waiting for SMWW to happen for years, like the SuperGod fanboys who loved everything about the New 52.

However, the SM/WW book itself even if it didn't move large numbers, still helped in normalizing the idea, and many casual fans are now much more receptive to SMWW because of that, so even a garbage idea can become accepted, even if begrudgingly if people are exposed to it enough times. The longer something keeps on going the harder it becomes to change it, and that's why I'm against sticking the characters into a void where they can have no perceivable changes.
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Batman cameo in Wonderwoman / Stevie Wonder ERB

Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:39 pm

I guess it was a bit unfair for me to say most people don't care but I still thing there is a section of WW and SM fans that just want their favorite superhero to have the limelight no matter the price. On the idea of SM/WW being normalized IDK how I feel about that idea because on the one hand I do think the fact that DC goes out of their way to make them a thing as often as they can leads to people thinking it is destined to be but I also don't think that everyone accept it just because it is continuously shoved it their faces but then again hearing and seeing the same thing over and over does influence ones thoughts on said thing(propaganda). But there is a vocal majority of DC fans that have a deep dislike for SM and WW even after having it shoved down their troughs.
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