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MyChemicalBromance
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Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:19 am

I thought I'd start this thread for general discussion related to the DCEU and not just one specific film in the series.


As for this post below are some rumors related to the future of the DCEU which were posted to 4chan on /co/ and then to r/DC_Cinematic of reddit (where I saw it). As always there may be spoilers under the tag so proceed with caution but this may be pure speculation.
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  • It states that Justice League 2 might not be directed by Snyder if JL receives critical backlash like BVS.
  • JL will include Henry Cavill, Ben Affleck, Gal Gadot, Ezra Miller, Jason Momoa, Ray Fisher, Amy Adams, Laurence Fishburne, J.K. Simmons, Jena Malone, Jeremy Irons, Connie Nielsen, Viola Davis, Diane Lane, Joe Morton and Harry Lennix
  • Amber Heard, Alona Tal, Imogen Poots, James Remar, Alfred Molina and Ed Harris are cast as (in the same order) Mera, Black Canary, Iris West, Darryl Frye, Thomas Morrow and General Wade Eiling.
  • Gugu Mbatha-Raw and Tessa Thompson are in negotiations to play Sarah Charles.
  • Javier Bardem, Jackie Earle Haley, Frances McDormand, Joel Edgerton, Rosamund Pike, Bill Nighy and Willem Dafoe have also been approached and/or are in discussions for undisclosed roles.
  • Aquaman will feature Ocean Master and the Trench. Black Manta will not be in this film, or current isn't in the film.
  • The Flash will feature Reverse Flash but has a twist unlike it's TV counter-part.
  • Shawn Levy (Real Steel) is the front runner to direct Shazam. Will include Black Adam.
  • Matt Reeves (Dawn of the Plant of the Apes), Duncan Jones (Moon) and Rian Johnson (Star Wars Ep. 8) have been approached about Green Lantern Corps. No villain has been chosen as of yet. Will include both Hal Jordan and John Stewart.
  • Cyborg is on the back burner until JL provides feeback on the public's reception of Cyborg. If it happens, it will have a black director. No villain has been chosen yet.
  • Ben Affleck is going to direct the Batman film. He has been writing it and will include Jared Leto as the Joker.
  • Suicide Squad 2 is going to happen in 2018 or 2019.
  • Wonder Woman will include Ares and Circe.
  • Doomsday will return.
  • George Miller is producing JL, but hasn't decided to direct a DC film.
  • Dark Universe is currently dead.
  • Blue and Gold is an infant project, won't come out earlier than 2019.
  • 3 films have started early development. These films are Deathstroke, Birds of Prey and Legion of Superheroes.
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MyChemicalBromance
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Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:40 am

Take these rumours with a pince of salt because they are after all rumours.
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Batman is trying to assemble the Justice League to protect the Earth from Darkseid, while the government, represented by Amanda Waller and Wade Eiling, is trying to capture them.
Darkseid is a "force of nature", and is impending arrival is described as "apocalyptic" with biblical undertones. He's also being redesigned, though they'll try to keep his classic look in mind.
Superman's rebirth is somehow connected to Darkseid, and includes Darkseid attempting to corrupt him in some sort of astral plane. Lois will be important to this subplot.
Darkseid will have some sort of ability to force the League members to handle their own dark sides and go through psychological trials. It appears to be capacity for good remains a theme of the movie, with the League members all being shown to be dysfunctional, angry people that could have tipped over to the dark side easily if circumstances were a little different.
The focus is on the six mains and Lois. Everyone else is just minor.
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Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:54 am

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Most of that sounds really good (any movie with Dafoe and Molina in them automatically get a boost), but do we really need more biblical overtones in this franchise? It's gotten pretty ridiculous at this point.

And maybe this is just me, but I feel like they're rushing Darkseid into this. Unless they plan on having him come back at a later date as well I guess, but Darkseid's supposed to be the Final Boss sort of character...

Unless they're bringing in The Anti-Monitor...which they really shouldn't do...
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Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:11 am

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I still don't like what they are doing with Lois Lane i know she is the key and all.

I agree i was looking forward to seeing Savage in the movie, Darkseid should be the penultimate antagonist.
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Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:26 am

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I dont want to get down but I just cant bring myself to get excited over this stuff anymore. I dont think they'll learn anything from BvS and just plow on with this dark, depressing universe they're building.
MyChemicalBromance wrote:QR_BBPOST Darkseid is a "force of nature", and is impending arrival is described as "apocalyptic" with biblical undertones
This is super unnecessary what with how they went all out on the Jesus imagery in Man of Steel and then doubled it in BvS.

I could knit pick all day to be honest and i'm hoping I can get out this apathetic feeling I currently have towards DC Movies. Time will tell but I just see the same crap all over again.

And now I hear Geoff Johns is helping write the Batman solo film...god dammit.
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Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:26 am

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adenjones93 wrote:QR_BBPOST
Spoiler: Show
I dont want to get down but I just cant bring myself to get excited over this stuff anymore. I dont think they'll learn anything from BvS and just plow on with this dark, depressing universe they're building.
MyChemicalBromance wrote:QR_BBPOST Darkseid is a "force of nature", and is impending arrival is described as "apocalyptic" with biblical undertones
This is super unnecessary what with how they went all out on the Jesus imagery in Man of Steel and then doubled it in BvS.

I could knit pick all day to be honest and i'm hoping I can get out this apathetic feeling I currently have towards DC Movies. Time will tell but I just see the same crap all over again.

And now I hear Geoff Johns is helping write the Batman solo film...god dammit.
Yeah, Affleck thinks Johns is a genious, which I dont really understand, but Joker again, seriously? At this point I prefer Pygg.

I personally think Darkseid could make a great movie villain, people like Savage and Ra's dont really give that epic final scene against a team of metas (without some hired meta help), and well, a movie pretty much needs that even though we might prefer a less actiony end. And honestly, Im a bit tired of the weird philosophical anti-humanity speeches those two give.

And a Deathstroke movie could be epic, I always wanted a pseudo-good very anti-hero DS story, Im imagining something like John Wick
Wow, that was hard to post, navigating thru all the spoilers and quotes.
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Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:47 am

adenjones93 wrote:QR_BBPOST
Spoiler: Show
I dont want to get down but I just cant bring myself to get excited over this stuff anymore. I dont think they'll learn anything from BvS and just plow on with this dark, depressing universe they're building.
MyChemicalBromance wrote:QR_BBPOST Darkseid is a "force of nature", and is impending arrival is described as "apocalyptic" with biblical undertones
This is super unnecessary what with how they went all out on the Jesus imagery in Man of Steel and then doubled it in BvS.

I could knit pick all day to be honest and i'm hoping I can get out this apathetic feeling I currently have towards DC Movies. Time will tell but I just see the same crap all over again.

And now I hear Geoff Johns is helping write the Batman solo film...god dammit.
Spoiler: Show
Same with the Savage part MCR (if I may call you that).

And I pretty much agree with you aden, although...permission to go into an essay length response that sounds like I've written it for my film theory class or something? Again--all personally opinion after this point:

Anyways, all the criticism that I've given the film has mostly been directed towards Zack Snyder, and upon further reflection I don't think that's very fair. Snyder isn't the sole cause of my problems with the DCEU so far, though I think there's numerous visual and directorial issues present that hamper his films. But I think he's just a symptom of the larger cause--which is the scripts. In my opinion, the DCEU has been saddled with some of the worst scripts to hit the superhero genre since Akiva Goldsman.

I won't get too much into the idea of auteur theory since that's in of itself an essay length topic only to say that I think it's utter bunk and that the primary creative force driving the picture varies from movie to movie. But the only reason I bring it up is that DJ mentioned (accurately) that the screenwriter is at the bottom of the creative totem pole for film production...sometimes. Like I said, it depends on the writer and it depends on the director (and producer/actors/even the editor to an extent etc etc). But while writers may be at the bottom of the barrel, the screenplay isn't--whether it's the first draft or the ninth draft from the fourth uncredited script doctor, the 120 or so sheets of paper that the director gives to the actors constitutes the most important part of the film that doesn't the actual filming equipment itself. While there are always exceptions since movie making a clash of ego's more often than it is a collective work of art, really good writers rarely have their screenplays altered beyond a few scene cuts and a few lines of dialogue being changed. The less talented the writer, at least as shown through the screenplay they've written, the more likely it is that they'll be bumped to a "story by" credit while the screenplay itself gets credited to Aaron Sorkin or something.

David Goyer is a bad writer. He's a hack to the greatest extreme--someone who passes himself off as a Hollywood insider who knows comics and comics characters when in actuality said knowledge is so superficial you'd think you were talking to a parent spying on their kids at a comics convention. He also doesn't know how to write, seemingly believing that his screenplays are somehow elevated to art level by having non-linear elements present without having even the slightest understanding of how non-linear storytelling actually works. Pulp Fiction and Tarantino films in general use non-linear storytelling to show events happening simultaneously from different perspectives in order to let audiences learn something new about a scene the more times it's shown. Kurt Vonnegut (since I always have to bring him up) used non-linear storytelling in Slaughterhouse Five as a deliberate commentary on the nature of free will and moral responsibility. There's a method to their madness--Man of Steel on the other hand jumped around in such haphazard ways that any character development, emotions, and eventually all semblances of narrative coherency ground to a complete halt, and the only reason they did seems to be because it would make the narrative seem "serious" and "art housey". That's just the structure of his screenplays--I could keep going on about his actual characters, protruding themes that are conveyed solely through exposition as opposed to action, or the fact that his dialogue would make mediocre fanfic writers blush, but I won't.

As I said, bad writers get their screenplays re-written--sometimes by other writers, sometimes by the director. This is what happened with the Dark Knight Trilogy--the original story itself was written by Goyer, but the moment Nolan came into the picture (someone who is himself not necessarily a great writer either) he re-wrote the screenplay (even bringing his brother into the process) until all Goyer got credit for was the story, nothing else. This didn't happen with Man of Steel--that screenplay was all Goyer's, with some story input from Snyder. Why? Because Snyder really doesn't know how to write. Almost all of his movies have been saddled with poor scripts but the biggest stinker of them all is the one he wrote himself (Sucker Punch). He's not a good enough writer himself nor a narratively focused enough director to do the re-writes himself, so with Man of Steel there weren't any re-writes, and it showed. With Batman v Superman, apparently at the insistence of Ben Affleck, Chris Terrio was brought in to unfuck the screenplay, but like I said in a post on one of the other forums, he didn't do enough to bump Goyer totally off the "written by" credit. I don't know if Snyder didn't want him to or Terrio wasn't given enough time between re-writing the script and the start of filming, but Goyer had enough of his grubby handprints on the script for Batman v Superman to get a full writing credit.

And it shows.

I don't particularly like Zack Snyder's visuals either since, personal opinion again, it over-uses CGI and slow motion and is more concerned with setting up a pretty picture than it is actually directed the action in a coherent way. He's not an actor's director and I think that's a big reason why Jesse Eisenberg's Luthor was, again in my opinion, laughably horrid. That being said, I'm starting to think that we really can't blame him for the narrative problems of either Man of Steel or Batman v Superman--to me, he's the kind of director that is pretty hands off with the screenplay and focuses more on what pictures he gets in his head than how he interprets the writers story. Which is fine so long as you have a good writer, but for most of his career, he hasn't.

So with that really long piece of shit essay that makes me sound like a pompous asshat, I will say this--I do think there's reason to hope. Batman v Superman didn't leave the DCEU on strong footing in my opinion (death is cheap, Lex is ruined, they're rushing Darkseid etc etc), but all the pieces are there for a really, really good bunch of movies. Terrio is completely taking over scripting duties for Justice League Part One (he might not return for Part Two though), and the cast of this franchise is excellent (in addition to pretty much being family like already, which is good for chemistry). Snyder's more questionable directing tendencies can be counter-acted by a good director like Ben Affleck being on set or by George Miller, who hopefully pushes the virtue of practical effects onto the movie as well. If the script lets Henry Cavil be the Superman I think we all know he can be (considering how he acts during interviews), then there's another big problem I have with BvS down the drain as well.

All the DCEU needs is a good script, and if Terrio can deliver, then we're back on track.

If Goyer is still allowed on set though, then the movies are going to continue sucking badly and the franchise will be dead in the water by the time 2019 rolls around.

At least in my opinion.

Sorry for the extra-long editorial.
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Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:02 am

enter desired name wrote:QR_BBPOST
adenjones93 wrote:QR_BBPOST
Spoiler: Show
I dont want to get down but I just cant bring myself to get excited over this stuff anymore. I dont think they'll learn anything from BvS and just plow on with this dark, depressing universe they're building.
MyChemicalBromance wrote:QR_BBPOST Darkseid is a "force of nature", and is impending arrival is described as "apocalyptic" with biblical undertones
This is super unnecessary what with how they went all out on the Jesus imagery in Man of Steel and then doubled it in BvS.

I could knit pick all day to be honest and i'm hoping I can get out this apathetic feeling I currently have towards DC Movies. Time will tell but I just see the same crap all over again.

And now I hear Geoff Johns is helping write the Batman solo film...god dammit.
Spoiler: Show
Same with the Savage part MCR (if I may call you that).

And I pretty much agree with you aden, although...permission to go into an essay length response that sounds like I've written it for my film theory class or something? Again--all personally opinion after this point:

Anyways, all the criticism that I've given the film has mostly been directed towards Zack Snyder, and upon further reflection I don't think that's very fair. Snyder isn't the sole cause of my problems with the DCEU so far, though I think there's numerous visual and directorial issues present that hamper his films. But I think he's just a symptom of the larger cause--which is the scripts. In my opinion, the DCEU has been saddled with some of the worst scripts to hit the superhero genre since Akiva Goldsman.

I won't get too much into the idea of auteur theory since that's in of itself an essay length topic only to say that I think it's utter bunk and that the primary creative force driving the picture varies from movie to movie. But the only reason I bring it up is that DJ mentioned (accurately) that the screenwriter is at the bottom of the creative totem pole for film production...sometimes. Like I said, it depends on the writer and it depends on the director (and producer/actors/even the editor to an extent etc etc). But while writers may be at the bottom of the barrel, the screenplay isn't--whether it's the first draft or the ninth draft from the fourth uncredited script doctor, the 120 or so sheets of paper that the director gives to the actors constitutes the most important part of the film that doesn't the actual filming equipment itself. While there are always exceptions since movie making a clash of ego's more often than it is a collective work of art, really good writers rarely have their screenplays altered beyond a few scene cuts and a few lines of dialogue being changed. The less talented the writer, at least as shown through the screenplay they've written, the more likely it is that they'll be bumped to a "story by" credit while the screenplay itself gets credited to Aaron Sorkin or something.

David Goyer is a bad writer. He's a hack to the greatest extreme--someone who passes himself off as a Hollywood insider who knows comics and comics characters when in actuality said knowledge is so superficial you'd think you were talking to a parent spying on their kids at a comics convention. He also doesn't know how to write, seemingly believing that his screenplays are somehow elevated to art level by having non-linear elements present without having even the slightest understanding of how non-linear storytelling actually works. Pulp Fiction and Tarantino films in general use non-linear storytelling to show events happening simultaneously from different perspectives in order to let audiences learn something new about a scene the more times it's shown. Kurt Vonnegut (since I always have to bring him up) used non-linear storytelling in Slaughterhouse Five as a deliberate commentary on the nature of free will and moral responsibility. There's a method to their madness--Man of Steel on the other hand jumped around in such haphazard ways that any character development, emotions, and eventually all semblances of narrative coherency ground to a complete halt, and the only reason they did seems to be because it would make the narrative seem "serious" and "art housey". That's just the structure of his screenplays--I could keep going on about his actual characters, protruding themes that are conveyed solely through exposition as opposed to action, or the fact that his dialogue would make mediocre fanfic writers blush, but I won't.

As I said, bad writers get their screenplays re-written--sometimes by other writers, sometimes by the director. This is what happened with the Dark Knight Trilogy--the original story itself was written by Goyer, but the moment Nolan came into the picture (someone who is himself not necessarily a great writer either) he re-wrote the screenplay (even bringing his brother into the process) until all Goyer got credit for was the story, nothing else. This didn't happen with Man of Steel--that screenplay was all Goyer's, with some story input from Snyder. Why? Because Snyder really doesn't know how to write. Almost all of his movies have been saddled with poor scripts but the biggest stinker of them all is the one he wrote himself (Sucker Punch). He's not a good enough writer himself nor a narratively focused enough director to do the re-writes himself, so with Man of Steel there weren't any re-writes, and it showed. With Batman v Superman, apparently at the insistence of Ben Affleck, Chris Terrio was brought in to unfuck the screenplay, but like I said in a post on one of the other forums, he didn't do enough to bump Goyer totally off the "written by" credit. I don't know if Snyder didn't want him to or Terrio wasn't given enough time between re-writing the script and the start of filming, but Goyer had enough of his grubby handprints on the script for Batman v Superman to get a full writing credit.

And it shows.

I don't particularly like Zack Snyder's visuals either since, personal opinion again, it over-uses CGI and slow motion and is more concerned with setting up a pretty picture than it is actually directed the action in a coherent way. He's not an actor's director and I think that's a big reason why Jesse Eisenberg's Luthor was, again in my opinion, laughably horrid. That being said, I'm starting to think that we really can't blame him for the narrative problems of either Man of Steel or Batman v Superman--to me, he's the kind of director that is pretty hands off with the screenplay and focuses more on what pictures he gets in his head than how he interprets the writers story. Which is fine so long as you have a good writer, but for most of his career, he hasn't.

So with that really long piece of shit essay that makes me sound like a pompous asshat, I will say this--I do think there's reason to hope. Batman v Superman didn't leave the DCEU on strong footing in my opinion (death is cheap, Lex is ruined, they're rushing Darkseid etc etc), but all the pieces are there for a really, really good bunch of movies. Terrio is completely taking over scripting duties for Justice League Part One (he might not return for Part Two though), and the cast of this franchise is excellent (in addition to pretty much being family like already, which is good for chemistry). Snyder's more questionable directing tendencies can be counter-acted by a good director like Ben Affleck being on set or by George Miller, who hopefully pushes the virtue of practical effects onto the movie as well. If the script lets Henry Cavil be the Superman I think we all know he can be (considering how he acts during interviews), then there's another big problem I have with BvS down the drain as well.

All the DCEU needs is a good script, and if Terrio can deliver, then we're back on track.

If Goyer is still allowed on set though, then the movies are going to continue sucking badly and the franchise will be dead in the water by the time 2019 rolls around.

At least in my opinion.

Sorry for the extra-long editorial.
First off (do we really need all the endless spoiler tags?), Aden, don't be so worried about dark. They said before B v S was released that Justice League will be lighter (straight from the mouth of Terrio, who called B v S the darker, middle chapter), the director has said Aquaman will be too, and the producers have said the same of Flash, Shazam and Cyborg. Wonder Woman is in World War I so of course its going to be dark, you can't make a movie in that setting all light and fluffy. And Suicide Squad is a movie about very hardened criminals a la The Dirty Dozen. It'll be dark, but it'll also have a sense of humour and fun about it. Can't speak of Justice League 2 as no writer is confirmed yet, and nothing is really known yet about Green Lantern Corps. But in summery this isn't Marvel where every film will look and feel exactly the same, its just that the two we've had so far are the same creative team.

Now, EDN. Surprisingly enough, I don't agree with some of your points. I have to say, I love both movies so far. In fact, I've probably watched Man of Steel more in the last couple of years than any other movie, and I went into it not liking Superman. I think its a very good film, and my opinion on B v S is already stated. But, unlike I have done some of your other rants on this, I don't disagree with you 100%. Once you overcome the shock of that, I'll explain.

While I like the films, based on the complaints I have heard (and admittedly not shared), I would say its the script and not the directing that's the problem. And when I say directing, I mean translating the script onto pictures on film, not the overall picture. I haven't seen all of them, but I do like Snyder's directing to the point where he's one of the few (probably only 2, 3 or 4) directors going where seeing his name on the credits is enough to make me want to watch a film if I get the chance. I think his visuals are the very best going at the moment. So while there is still some to disagree with, I actually quite liked seeing some of what you say in that last half.

And I can assure you that Goyer is out of the picture. It wasn't actually Affleck who brought Terrio in. I'm not sure if it was the Snyders, Chuck Roven or someone at Warner Bros., but they booted him themselves in favour of Terrio, and that helped sell the scripts to Ben as he said he has faith in what Terrio delivers. I suspect you're right that B v S is mostly Goyer's work with some scenes / dialogue rewritten (first one that leaps to mind as a candidate is Granny's Peach Tea), but Justice League is all Terrio. In fact, I suspect its the fact the producers didn't like Goyer's ideas for Justice League that lead to him getting booted, as I hear Terrio ignored everything Goyer had on that one and went his own way.

And just to sign off, great to hear you've still got some hope there EDN pal, because personally I think we're in for a real treat!
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Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:38 am

I think what DC should do. Screw individual films and have like 3 to 5 JL films once a year. If one of the characters IE like Gal's Wonder Woman impresses the fans then do an individual film for said character. I hope they don't over saturate the comic book market, with them and Marvel doing lots of films people might stop going to them. But I'm not an exec at DC/Warner so my ideas are mute. hehehe.
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Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:25 am

The Sulkier Clown wrote:QR_BBPOST First off (do we really need all the endless spoiler tags?)
I dunno, people were spoiler tagging so I thought I would too. Mob mentality and all that.

And I think it is fine to be apprehensive. I was super excited for BvS and it let me down. I'm not asking for Marvel V2, I've read and watched DC long enough to know what they are going for in terms of atmosphere and I've accepted the 'darker' route. What I want is a coherent script, straight forward plot and a good payoff and I didnt get that in BvS.

And so yes, the Wonder Woman film will be dark but Wonder Woman herself shouldnt be. But we'll see how it goes. Obviously I am going to see the film. But i'll go in lowering my expectations.
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Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:15 pm

Dark tone isn't a problem, Nolans Trilogy was amazing and they were pretty dark. What they need is a better script.

For the BM movie, I'm looking for Court of Owls or Under the Red Hood, interesting stories that can be easily adapted to the big screen. Especially with Ben as Batman.

Deathstroke movie? Yes please.

Cyborg movie? Perfect way to extend the DC universe by creating the Teen Titans instead.

Shazam? Why not Green Arrow? If your not a comic book fan you don't know Shazam.

EDN, I get where your coming from, but how the hell do you have problems with the visuals lol? It was freaking amazing.
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Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:56 pm

Ddlo18 wrote:QR_BBPOST Dark tone isn't a problem, Nolans Trilogy was amazing and they were pretty dark. What they need is a better script.

For the BM movie, I'm looking for Court of Owls or Under the Red Hood, interesting stories that can be easily adapted to the big screen. Especially with Ben as Batman.

Deathstroke movie? Yes please.

Cyborg movie? Perfect way to extend the DC universe by creating the Teen Titans instead.

Shazam? Why not Green Arrow? If your not a comic book fan you don't know Shazam.

EDN, I get where your coming from, but how the hell do you have problems with the visuals lol? It was freaking amazing.
Under the Red Hood / A Death in the Family seems most likely at this point mate, since they've pretty much said there's a payoff coming for the Robin suit already seen. However, don't expect any direct comic book adaptations. They'll be jumping off points with perhaps two or three key scenes used.

Judging by your question marks, I assume you don't know this, but forgive me if that's a misjudgement. Anyway, nothing confirmed on Deathstroke, that one's just rumour. I wouldn't expect it too soon, its probably just one of many options they're looking at to see if the right movie is there. Cyborg was confirmed a while back for 2020 release, but no details as of yet other than the lead actor. Shazam confirmed for 2019 as a Dwayne Johnson movie (he's Black Adam, who he calls an anti-hero). I would argue non-comic book fans know Shazam enough as well. Show Green Arrow to a non comic book fan and they'll probably get confused as to why Robin Hood has left Sherwood Forest, and somehow made it out of the 12th century. That's if you don't just make him Batman wearing green, anyway, in which case, we have Batman for that movie. And I don't think the show's that big outside of comic fandoms (or at least those with a passing interest). Meanwhile, Shazam is famous enough that the name alone is well known in pop-culture. Plus he was the biggest superhero in the world at one point back in the day.

And your first and last sentences? Couldn't agree more.
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Sun Apr 10, 2016 1:45 pm

Alright I'm more on the neutral ground this time.

I get some of EDN's points but also Sulky's as well. Yeah, BvS stumbled a bit. Snyder is not the best director in terms of plot and story structure. Really he needs someone to reign him in.

For the Cyborg film, instead of making it about race, why don't they make it into a Teen Titans spinoff film? Cyborg starts off on the JL and decides to form his own superhero organization though and make them more like they're focusing on lower levels instead of the JL looking at outer space. They look out for more mid level criminals. A great way to introduce Deathstroke too. As for Darkseid showing up early, who's to say that's the only time he'll be a villain? Maybe he'll come back. I do agree he works better as the final boss, but I think it would be cool to see him as a recurring antagonist. Like he pops up again once in awhile. Right now though I think the DCEU seems to be kind of tied in its own knot right now. They took the gamble that BvS would smash records but not the records they want so they seem undecided should they focus on standalone or crossover films.

WW I expect to be a little dark because the whole point is she lost faith in humanity. As long as she stays true to her character I'll be happy. I think with Suicide Squad and WW, it sets up the JL Part One film, but something goes wrong. The Flash solo film is about Flash going back in time to fix it, setting up a Flashpoint storyline I think. And then the fixed timeline leads to JL Part Two. I feel like they already have the first few films mapped out but it doesn't really make sense to us until we see the bigger picture.

And I like the biblical allusions despite being an atheist myself. Especially considering Darkseid's planet is called the Apokalips. I think Suicide Squad and WW film have a lot of pressure on them right now.
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Ddlo18
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Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:49 pm

The Sulkier Clown wrote:
Ddlo18 wrote:QR_BBPOST Dark tone isn't a problem, Nolans Trilogy was amazing and they were pretty dark. What they need is a better script.

For the BM movie, I'm looking for Court of Owls or Under the Red Hood, interesting stories that can be easily adapted to the big screen. Especially with Ben as Batman.

Deathstroke movie? Yes please.

Cyborg movie? Perfect way to extend the DC universe by creating the Teen Titans instead.

Shazam? Why not Green Arrow? If your not a comic book fan you don't know Shazam.

EDN, I get where your coming from, but how the hell do you have problems with the visuals lol? It was freaking amazing.
Under the Red Hood / A Death in the Family seems most likely at this point mate, since they've pretty much said there's a payoff coming for the Robin suit already seen. However, don't expect any direct comic book adaptations. They'll be jumping off points with perhaps two or three key scenes used.

Judging by your question marks, I assume you don't know this, but forgive me if that's a misjudgement. Anyway, nothing confirmed on Deathstroke, that one's just rumour. I wouldn't expect it too soon, its probably just one of many options they're looking at to see if the right movie is there. Cyborg was confirmed a while back for 2020 release, but no details as of yet other than the lead actor. Shazam confirmed for 2019 as a Dwayne Johnson movie (he's Black Adam, who he calls an anti-hero). I would argue non-comic book fans know Shazam enough as well. Show Green Arrow to a non comic book fan and they'll probably get confused as to why Robin Hood has left Sherwood Forest, and somehow made it out of the 12th century. That's if you don't just make him Batman wearing green, anyway, in which case, we have Batman for that movie. And I don't think the show's that big outside of comic fandoms (or at least those with a passing interest). Meanwhile, Shazam is famous enough that the name alone is well known in pop-culture. Plus he was the biggest superhero in the world at one point back in the day.

And your first and last sentences? Couldn't agree more.
No need to be sorry Sulks. I know Cyborg and Shazam are confirmed, but they're going to be the biggest question marks on terms of success and popularity. That's why I would like Teen Titans to extend the Universe more, introduce Donna, Dick, Roy and have Cyborg leading the team. It would be something the audience hasnt seen and something Marvel hasn't done yet.

Shazam? Ehhhh, they got the Rock as Black Adam (great casting) but who are they gonna have as Shazam? Oh I think I know, and his name IS JOHN CENNNNNAAAAAA !! (Play the music baby). I love Shazam and would pay the bucks to see him fight Superman. Marketing would have to be really good in this movie.

The Deathstroke movie is a rumor that I would love to be true. Like American said, introduce him in a Teen Titans movie and based on critical and fan responses see if they want a movie from him. I'm sure they will.

But you know what I want the most? Bruce Timm being on top of this universe. The guy just knows his DC characters.
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DaisyJane
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Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:07 pm

I think a Teen Titans movie is a better use of Cyborg and if there is a Batman movie first then Nightwing can be introduced there and Garth could be introduced in Aquaman, Donna in WW2 or introduce her in TT so that these characters are already familiar and Deathstroke is a complicated character that works in this more complicated universe. I also want a Birds of Prey and I really want Dinah in the JL as well. I think if WW does well we may actually get a few more female lead superhero movies. So WW has more riding on it than just helping the main DCEU.
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Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:27 pm

Here's a rumor I've read on Reddit:

http://www.christianpost.com/news/justi ... ie-161291/

'Justice League: Part 1' Movie Rumor: Aquaman to be a Villain in First 'Justice League' Movie

Take it with a grain of salt because it's just a rumor, but it seems decently likely since I've read somewhere (I think Snyder said it or something) that the Justice League movie will be based on Flashpoint Paradox, Justice League: War and Throne of Atlantis. I don't know how I feel about Justice League Part 1 taking stuff from New 52 movies tbh...I wasn't too big a fan of them to say the least. I swear to god, if "You're strong!" "I know" is in the movie...Anyways, since I'm a pessimist, I'm getting some bad ju-jus.

Well at least the good news is that Ben Affleck is confirmed to direct Batman movie :D It's probably one of the two untitled movies that WB are planning.
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Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:40 pm

I think because Geoff John is the creative/comic consultant on these movies he is biased to his own writing. You would think that after the Green Lantern movie that they would really limit his input. And if we end up with SMWW after all the lovely chemistry with Bruce and Diana I am going to quit DC.
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Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:28 pm

DaisyJane wrote:QR_BBPOST I think because Geoff John is the creative/comic consultant on these movies he is biased to his own writing. You would think that after the Green Lantern movie that they would really limit his input. And if we end up with SMWW after all the lovely chemistry with Bruce and Diana I am going to quit DC.
I think for us to get cance--I mean SM/WW in the DCEU, WB would have to make such a dumb succession of decisions that we'd quit the movies before hand. Such as:

-Killing Lois Lane
-Turning SuperBrood into SuperDouche
-Making either Batman do something stupid to ruin the chenistry with Wonder Woman or turn Wonder Woman herself into a poster-girl for the inherebt sexism of SM/WW
-Ignoring the filmmakers, including but not limited too Gal Gadot, Ben Affleck, Henry Cavill, Amy Adams, etc etc
-Wholesale adaptions of comic storylines
-Wholesale adaptions of HORRID comic storylines
-DC Editorial Assuming Direct Control of the movies

So while it'd be bad, we'd see the writing on the wall and abandon ship right away me thinks
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Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:33 pm

Also to answer Ddlo (late--my apologies), Zack Snydee uses too much CGI and slow motion for my liking, and some of his shots border on cartoonish for me (and irrational--like Goddammit Superman don't just float there, save those people!)

I couldn't see anytging during the last battle with all the chunks of whatever flying around and the poor camera control, and that scene at the end, with "I'm sad that I'm flying" abd Dumbsday? It looked like that time Vegeta tried to destory Cell with everything he had and I laughed because of it.

So yeah, to me, he directs things that can be downright cartoonish looking (Watchmen, parts of this movie...) or are just visually messy
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Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:17 pm

I'm sure they're not going to make direct adaptations of those films. They'll use Flashpoint to set up Amazons vs Atlantians (No way in hell will there be Aquaman and WW). JL War to introduce Darkseid and Throne of Atlantis to set up Aquaman fighting for his throne.

Again they're rumors, but BM v SM was a DKR's adaptation, and WW in the movie was nothing like she was in that comic.
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