Justice League Dark: Apokolips War

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ThatOneGuy
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Re: Justice League Dark: Apokolips War

Thu May 14, 2020 11:45 am

I don't mind the movies being connected and somewhat direct adaptions are fine in my opinion court of owl would be great for instance as Morgan point out but I probably would change the ending the Night of the Owl section and perhaps the Lincoln March reveal

The movies and character can and should connect but I don't want them to have the same animation style. I Loved the animated style of Into The Spiderverse Warner should experiment with animated styles more I mean they were once the best at animation.
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RadicalLogic
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Re: Justice League Dark: Apokolips War

Tue May 26, 2020 5:02 pm

ARB wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 4:08 am
I am honestly over having straight adaptations of story arcs into animated movies. I didn't actually mind the way they did things with the N52 movies. A connected universe with stories inspired by comic book arcs rather than being 1:1 adaptations was a decent way of going about it, it's just that they sucked at pulling it off.

I'm personally sick of disconnected stories. Some of the worst problems that DC is facing today is due to their awkward realization of the shared continuity concept and their insistence on segregating characters for no good reasons. The DCAU managed to do it flawlessly when it didn't even start that way, so why is it so difficult to do it now both in animated and live action movies ?

I think the solution of segregating the characters that many are calling for is just avoiding the issue rather than addressing the core problems that current DC is having. There's nothing wrong with having a shared universe, it's just that DC's backwards implementation of it is killing the idea despite how easy and natural it is to implement. There is a reason why Marvel never struggled with it.
I think it's unfair to say "Marvel does OK, why can't DC" since Marvel is a universe that was built from the ground-up to be a shared hub, what with everyone and their mother operating out of New York City, while DC just kind of haphazardly started throwing and keeps throwing disparate characters together and hoping they'll mesh well. Let's be honest, who the hell wanted Watchmen or Wildstorm characters in the wider clusterfuck that is the DC Universe?

So I can't really begrudge DC that much for deciding that it's not worth the bother and keeping everyone more or less self-contained, especially when their idea of "shared universe stories" is frequently Snyder/Bendis-esque, universe-breaking, company-wide events that derail other writers and their stories. I'd rather have nothing than that on a regular basis.
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ARB
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Re: Justice League Dark: Apokolips War

Wed May 27, 2020 1:13 am

RadicalLogic wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 5:02 pm
I think it's unfair to say "Marvel does OK, why can't DC" since Marvel is a universe that was built from the ground-up to be a shared hub, what with everyone and their mother operating out of New York City, while DC just kind of haphazardly started throwing and keeps throwing disparate characters together and hoping they'll mesh well. Let's be honest, who the hell wanted Watchmen or Wildstorm characters in the wider clusterfuck that is the DC Universe?

So I can't really begrudge DC that much for deciding that it's not worth the bother and keeping everyone more or less self-contained, especially when their idea of "shared universe stories" is frequently Snyder/Bendis-esque, universe-breaking, company-wide events that derail other writers and their stories. I'd rather have nothing than that on a regular basis.
I also used the DCAU as a point of comparison as well. Even disregarding Marvel, there's no excuse for how much DC has been screwing up their whole universe and for the amount of time they've had. I totally hold it against DC. It's not that they seemingly have no idea how to manage a shared universe, it's the fact that they actively undermine any effort of stitching the DCU back together. They keep on enforcing arbitrary rules that segregate their characters for absolutely no reason other than sheer incompetence. Not to mention that the DCU was in such a great shape around '09~'10 before the N52 came and got rid of decades of progress.

Sure DC didn't begin as one cohesive shared universe, but it almost immediately started having crossovers as far back as the 1940s. There is absolutely no excuse not to be able to do a proper a shared universe after almost 80 years in publication. Them throwing everything and the kitchen sink into the DCU after the N52 came around is a proof of how incompetent the buffoons running DC are. You rag on Snyder, but at least the guy is trying to put the universe back together, and has never added to the fragmentation of the DCU the way other writers like King do. What's more, it's clear that what Snyder wanted ruffled some feathers over at DC because that's supposedly contributed to how Didio ended up getting fired.

That's the problem though, having a shared universe is much MUCH more than worth the bother. It literally takes away nothing and adds so much more to the the characters. Why impose hard limits on characters when you can have so much more things to play with if you wanted ?
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ThatOneGuy
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Re: Justice League Dark: Apokolips War

Thu May 28, 2020 7:29 am

There are two things that are taken for granted all that time that are absolute necessary to how comics function IMO and those two things are continuity and having a shared universe.

DC has no excuse as to why it screw up so much regarding having a shared universe DC characters have been crossing over for decades and some of DC best stories are universe wide story's. DC characters are even famously linked to each other like Batman And Superman 'The World's Finest'.

As with most things DC is its own worst enemy. They fail and this two necessary things then turn around and blame these concepts as to why they are failing, sad really.
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ARB
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Re: Justice League Dark: Apokolips War

Thu May 28, 2020 6:58 pm

ThatOneGuy wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 7:29 am
As with most things DC is its own worst enemy. They fail and this two necessary things then turn around and blame these concepts as to why they are failing, sad really.
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ThatOneGuy
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Re: Justice League Dark: Apokolips War

Thu May 28, 2020 9:49 pm

DC be DC simple as that. Nothing else to it. I hope the death of the New 52 movies will bring something better but knowing DC, well....
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ARB
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Re: Justice League Dark: Apokolips War

Fri May 29, 2020 3:30 am

This is an excerpt from a very recent interview that Scott Snyder did. Seemed relevant to our discussion here.
I think it’s our fault, DC. Let’s just talk frankly, because we’re all fucking stuck at home, and why not? Right? And dropping the unicycle, and the torches, and all the kinds of stuff that I P.T. Barnum everything all the time, and say we didn’t do the best job we could have the last couple of years.

You know, there are a lot of people… In a lot of ways, it’s great to have everybody siloed, and doing stuff that’s really uniquely theirs. But in another way, there’s a way of doing that, and having a balance where stories that are supposed to be reflective of one another acknowledge each other. When you do feel like if you want it to be a unified universe, you can read it in such a way that you’re moving through like a tapestry in this beautiful way.

If you want to read things that are singular, like Mister Miracle, you can read that, and it’s singular and works on its own. But those of us who were working within the main Universe, I think myself included, sometimes dropped the ball in terms of making sure that we coordinated enough, that it made you feel like you were in one single awesome inclusive Universe.
Link: http://www.multiversitycomics.com/inter ... ath-metal/

And that's why despite the fact that I don't always love everything that Snyder does, I have immense respect for the guy. He just gets comics in a way that very few people working in at DC today do. One can only hope Death Metal truly causes a change in direction for DC. With Didio gone at least there is hope this time.
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ThatOneGuy
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Re: Justice League Dark: Apokolips War

Sat May 30, 2020 12:37 am

I have no idea in which direction Snyder will take Death Metal. I've been away from comic news for a while and I just don't have any good guesses in which direction he will go but I guess that's a good think. I hope he manger to repair the DC Universe a bit by the end of this event DC really has an opportunity to come back like Marvel did with the Heroic Age or so I've been told I don't read Marvel comics.
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ARB
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Re: Justice League Dark: Apokolips War

Sat May 30, 2020 8:52 pm

I have no real expectations either, only hope. None of Snyder's previous stories ended in any impactful way to lead me to believe Death Metal will be any different. However reading the guy's interviews shows that he has some very strong feelings on maintaining the DCU as a true shared, cohesive, whole and his work does support that. This makes me think that the direction he wanted to take the DCU in just wasn't all that popular within the DC offices, which always meant that his stories didn't have lasting effects. That, coupled with Snyder's annoying insistence on playing nice with everyone, even those directly undermining his work like King just seemed to stifle any potential his work might've had.

With Didio's departure however, Snyder seems re-energized and excited for his DC stuff once more, so I'm feeling optimistic about Death Metal. He's stated directly that before Didio's firing that Death Metal was it's own thing, but now it will actually set up the stuff that comes after and even tie all the separate evens like Doomsday Clock together. He's talking about how there's finally actual planning going on at DC. It all just sound promising. I know Death Metal will be a fun romp on its own, but if it ends up bringing the DCU closer together then that's just a huge plus.
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