Wonderbat Blues

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The_Hopeless_Shipper
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:27 pm

DaisyJane wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:59 pm
Another positive note, though it is small, Batman saved Diana in the latest issue of JL and there was a bit of banter. No much but I will take anything.
which comic is this from
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:55 pm

I posted the page on this thread. It is from Justice League Drowned.
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Grendle1853
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:57 am

Cool.
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:40 am

It's great that you guys kept this site up all these years through the heart-piercing fuckery. No matter what happens we'll always have the best romance in the best adaptation of the Justice League's animated series.
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:24 pm

ARB wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:52 pm

He has to be level headed if I couldn't pick on him being a BatCat shipper despite watching his videos for quite a while now. I love ComicPOP as well and I find Sal particularly hilarious. I remember Sal doing a stream with Joel about ships, and they did mention BMWW and they both agreed it could be interesting but that DC will probably never do it. Tiffany (Sal's wife) seems to like BMWW quite a bit as well. In short they all have pretty good taste as far as I'm concerned.

Really ? What makes my writing distinctive ? I've rarely gotten any critique on my writing. I don't think we really disagree on White Knight, I'm just simply more forgiving of it than you are. I've mentioned before that I pretty much dislike the entire premise of the book and the beginning of the story wasn't exactly great. However, I think Murphy ended up writing Bruce with as much respect as possible given the biased premise, and the story ended on a decent note. Beside the book is really gorgeous and stylish looking, which helped improve my opinion of it. My opinion of this Elseworlds story remains in the air considering the follow up has yet to be published, although its title (Curse of the White Knight) sounds uninspired.

Years ago, after getting into one too many fights I pretty much stopped going to the CV forums. Only recently I started to pass by every other week or so to see if anything interesting is happening, but the place seems pretty inactive. I'm running out of places to vent my frustration over King's Batman so pretty soon I'll need to look for a new website where people haven't been brainwashed into the King cult yet.
Yeah, I remember that stream and I 'member Tiff being pro-Wonderbat which didn't really surprise me she seem to have a background in the arts specifically classical art(my guess) so it makes sense that she would like Wonderbat plus women tend to be pro Wonderbat a bit more for some reason. I find Joel and Sal(along with most comic book fans) subscribe to some falsehoods commonly repeated by people about Batman. Like the idea that he doesn't try redeeming his villains and isn't as "hopeful" as Superman. I remember both of them repeating the idea that the older they got the more they appreciate Superman and realize Batman was crazy which Segways perfectly into why I hate comics like White Knight;

It portrays Batman as a concept that needs fixing. Bruce is portrayed as a man on a selfish Childish Crusade who is blind to the real world and having the fucking Joker(and Harley) of all characters take the moral high ground is insulting;

"There is a difference between possessing a philosophic point that permeates ones work and having a tactical axe to grind which usually requires the artificial manipulation of character and usually result in shallow writing".

White Knight hides behind the "elseworld" label but an elseworld book is on that takes familiar characters and imagine them in a new situation not take familiar Worlds(in White Knights case BTAS and many more) and familiar costumes and put new people in them. The reason I am afraid of this is simple, it's easy to destroy a character's legacy just look at what DC allows to happen to Wonder woman people still think she is a dumb barbarian. Batman is dying a death of a thousand cuts people think White Knight is a valid take on Batman, they think the strawman Murphy erect so he could blow down is an accurate representation and critique of Batman. I am genuinely worried about the future of the character.

I do agree that Superman and Batman are as different from each other as day and night, but that's not supposed to be an issue. The way I see it, their friendship is a symbol showing how heroism has no single face, and that both Bruce and Clark are a two side of the same coin. Sure the two seem to have very little in common, but that's only true on a surface level. At their core they're both heroes, and some of the greatest heroes at that, and that's all that actually matters.

I think only those who have a severe fundamental issue understanding Superman's characters could dislike Batman, which is why you'll notice the SMWW's almost always tend to go haywire whenever Bruce is involved. There's a very specific contingent of Supe's fans who are the source of all problems surrounding the character, the "SuperGod" fans who almost always turn out to be SMWW's as well. Aside from their influence Superman could be a great and likable character, but after the New 52 it might be too late to try and fix things.
We keep on addressing "Supergod" fans as if they are a minority. I think they are a plurality. I think it was always too late, most prominent Superman fans are "Supergod" fans they just happen to like Lois sometime. I think the whole messiah complex is an underlining aspect of Superman. Just like Noir and Gothicism is and underline part of Batman.
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:34 am

I enjoy white knight it does not represent what is wrong with batman. It is the world we live in now that is wrong especially those who think themselves superior intellectual types. It is sad to say if batman was real people would actually root for the Joker and want batman thrown in jail instead. Why because this post modern age has no idea of what is right or wrong personal responsibility or honor. Some are hanging on to those old fashioned values but most are not. It was a slow process but the deconstruction of morality personal responsibility and other values that both batman and superman represented are now seen as quaint and out dated. If some one made him up today or superman for that matter it will not fly. and they would be unpopular. Well that is my take on it. Right and wrong is just a state of mind and everything is permitted let chaos reign is what this society wants. It has reached the point of critical mass. The culture is just exposing the result of that type of thinking. Or maybe I am just that old crazy man on the chair thinking about the good old days.
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ARB
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:18 pm

ThatOneGuy wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:24 pm
Yeah, I remember that stream and I 'member Tiff being pro-Wonderbat which didn't really surprise me she seem to have a background in the arts specifically classical art(my guess) so it makes sense that she would like Wonderbat plus women tend to be pro Wonderbat a bit more for some reason. I find Joel and Sal(along with most comic book fans) subscribe to some falsehoods commonly repeated by people about Batman. Like the idea that he doesn't try redeeming his villains and isn't as "hopeful" as Superman. I remember both of them repeating the idea that the older they got the more they appreciate Superman and realize Batman was crazy which Segways perfectly into why I hate comics like White Knight;
Yeah I'm still surprised by how the majority of WonderBat fans I meet tend to be girls. This makes the one comment from a disgruntled SMWW cultist about how BMWW is just a "fantasy of the dudebro Batman fans" especially hilarious. Lots of projection going on there me thinks.

To be fair I don't watch enough of their streams to comment on any of this as I mostly watch their prerecorded stuff (e.g. Back issues), but I do remember that particular comment about them relating to Superman more as they grow older, because it annoyed me. Still I don't take everything they say seriously because you'll notice that they go back on forth on some stuff a lot. They're mostly trying to be entertaining. What matters the most about them is that they're rational and don't devolve into fanboyism, which means that I can count on them to provide reasonable critique most of the time.
wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:24 pm
It portrays Batman as a concept that needs fixing. Bruce is portrayed as a man on a selfish Childish Crusade who is blind to the real world and having the fucking Joker(and Harley) of all characters take the moral high ground is insulting;

"There is a difference between possessing a philosophic point that permeates ones work and having a tactical axe to grind which usually requires the artificial manipulation of character and usually result in shallow writing".

White Knight hides behind the "elseworld" label but an elseworld book is on that takes familiar characters and imagine them in a new situation not take familiar Worlds(in White Knights case BTAS and many more) and familiar costumes and put new people in them. The reason I am afraid of this is simple, it's easy to destroy a character's legacy just look at what DC allows to happen to Wonder woman people still think she is a dumb barbarian. Batman is dying a death of a thousand cuts people think White Knight is a valid take on Batman, they think the strawman Murphy erect so he could blow down is an accurate representation and critique of Batman. I am genuinely worried about the future of the character.
Ehhh....I'll have to preface this by saying that I only read through White Knight ONCE, and have yet to go back to it (not that I feel the need to), so my memory of it might be a lot fuzzier than yours. As I said before, I too take issue with the entire premise of White Knight and how it posits that Batman is a destructive force that makes more trouble than he solves. However I do remember that by the end the story basically showed that Batman wasn't wrong in everything he does, and that with the help of his family and the GCPD he would be able to accomplish even more.

I especially loved it when Barbara made Dick shut up with his whining about Bruce, that was basically a big moment of support for Bruce in the story. That's what I meant when I said that the story ended up being way better than what its premise suggested. I feared the worst would happen (think Tom King level bad) but was surprised to see the book taking a level headed approach all things considered. Even the explanation that Murphy gave for Bruce's rampage during the story made sense. Compare that to the garbage that King is doing right now and you will understand why I'm somewhat lenient on White Knight.

I share your same fears about how Batman's entire legacy as a character is being trampled on slowly with every passing year, hell we talked about this very same subject before, you know how I feel about it. However, I'm tired of being angry at every Batman book that DC publishes. Amidst all the garbage that King is producing and the depressingly underwhelming Detective Comics runs from both Tynion and Robinson, White Knight does stand out with its decent story and superb art. I don't want it to be the standard for how to write Batman in the future, but I highly doubt an Elseworlds mini series will do as much damage as the current main 105 issues Batman run.

Speaking of Elseworlds books, have you read Batman The Dark Prince Charming ? I wasn't aware that the second issue has dropped until I saw the TPB on Amazon. If you've read it, what did you think of it ? That one has a lot of Catwoman BTW.
wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:24 pm
We keep on addressing "Supergod" fans as if they are a minority. I think they are a plurality. I think it was always too late, most prominent Superman fans are "Supergod" fans they just happen to like Lois sometime. I think the whole messiah complex is an underlining aspect of Superman. Just like Noir and Gothicism is and underline part of Batman.
I don't how many of them are there but I don't think they're the majority seeing how much more successful Superman Rebirth was compared to the New 52. Both Tomasi and Jurgens wrote a fantastic Superman free of any messiah complex or Jesus parallels, which matches my interpretation of the character, so I do think there's a way to do the character correctly.

The issue with Superman is that many people want him to be something he isn't. They want him to be the main character and face of DC who everyone is in awe of, which is why we keep getting those Superman=Jesus stories where we keep being told of how awesome Superman is with little to show for it. Superman is simply not made for the spot light, unlike Batman and Wonder Woman. Another point is the massive inferiority complex most Superman fans have with Batman, and that includes DC itself. I think Superman, not unlike Batman, needs a course correction before his image is tarnished any further. At least unlike Bruce, things have improved for Clark since the New 52, so that's something.
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