Wonderbat Blues

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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:27 pm

DaisyJane wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:59 pm
Another positive note, though it is small, Batman saved Diana in the latest issue of JL and there was a bit of banter. No much but I will take anything.
which comic is this from
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:55 pm

I posted the page on this thread. It is from Justice League Drowned.
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:57 am

Cool.
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:40 am

It's great that you guys kept this site up all these years through the heart-piercing fuckery. No matter what happens we'll always have the best romance in the best adaptation of the Justice League's animated series.
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:24 pm

ARB wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:52 pm

He has to be level headed if I couldn't pick on him being a BatCat shipper despite watching his videos for quite a while now. I love ComicPOP as well and I find Sal particularly hilarious. I remember Sal doing a stream with Joel about ships, and they did mention BMWW and they both agreed it could be interesting but that DC will probably never do it. Tiffany (Sal's wife) seems to like BMWW quite a bit as well. In short they all have pretty good taste as far as I'm concerned.

Really ? What makes my writing distinctive ? I've rarely gotten any critique on my writing. I don't think we really disagree on White Knight, I'm just simply more forgiving of it than you are. I've mentioned before that I pretty much dislike the entire premise of the book and the beginning of the story wasn't exactly great. However, I think Murphy ended up writing Bruce with as much respect as possible given the biased premise, and the story ended on a decent note. Beside the book is really gorgeous and stylish looking, which helped improve my opinion of it. My opinion of this Elseworlds story remains in the air considering the follow up has yet to be published, although its title (Curse of the White Knight) sounds uninspired.

Years ago, after getting into one too many fights I pretty much stopped going to the CV forums. Only recently I started to pass by every other week or so to see if anything interesting is happening, but the place seems pretty inactive. I'm running out of places to vent my frustration over King's Batman so pretty soon I'll need to look for a new website where people haven't been brainwashed into the King cult yet.
Yeah, I remember that stream and I 'member Tiff being pro-Wonderbat which didn't really surprise me she seem to have a background in the arts specifically classical art(my guess) so it makes sense that she would like Wonderbat plus women tend to be pro Wonderbat a bit more for some reason. I find Joel and Sal(along with most comic book fans) subscribe to some falsehoods commonly repeated by people about Batman. Like the idea that he doesn't try redeeming his villains and isn't as "hopeful" as Superman. I remember both of them repeating the idea that the older they got the more they appreciate Superman and realize Batman was crazy which Segways perfectly into why I hate comics like White Knight;

It portrays Batman as a concept that needs fixing. Bruce is portrayed as a man on a selfish Childish Crusade who is blind to the real world and having the fucking Joker(and Harley) of all characters take the moral high ground is insulting;

"There is a difference between possessing a philosophic point that permeates ones work and having a tactical axe to grind which usually requires the artificial manipulation of character and usually result in shallow writing".

White Knight hides behind the "elseworld" label but an elseworld book is on that takes familiar characters and imagine them in a new situation not take familiar Worlds(in White Knights case BTAS and many more) and familiar costumes and put new people in them. The reason I am afraid of this is simple, it's easy to destroy a character's legacy just look at what DC allows to happen to Wonder woman people still think she is a dumb barbarian. Batman is dying a death of a thousand cuts people think White Knight is a valid take on Batman, they think the strawman Murphy erect so he could blow down is an accurate representation and critique of Batman. I am genuinely worried about the future of the character.

I do agree that Superman and Batman are as different from each other as day and night, but that's not supposed to be an issue. The way I see it, their friendship is a symbol showing how heroism has no single face, and that both Bruce and Clark are a two side of the same coin. Sure the two seem to have very little in common, but that's only true on a surface level. At their core they're both heroes, and some of the greatest heroes at that, and that's all that actually matters.

I think only those who have a severe fundamental issue understanding Superman's characters could dislike Batman, which is why you'll notice the SMWW's almost always tend to go haywire whenever Bruce is involved. There's a very specific contingent of Supe's fans who are the source of all problems surrounding the character, the "SuperGod" fans who almost always turn out to be SMWW's as well. Aside from their influence Superman could be a great and likable character, but after the New 52 it might be too late to try and fix things.
We keep on addressing "Supergod" fans as if they are a minority. I think they are a plurality. I think it was always too late, most prominent Superman fans are "Supergod" fans they just happen to like Lois sometime. I think the whole messiah complex is an underlining aspect of Superman. Just like Noir and Gothicism is and underline part of Batman.
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:34 am

I enjoy white knight it does not represent what is wrong with batman. It is the world we live in now that is wrong especially those who think themselves superior intellectual types. It is sad to say if batman was real people would actually root for the Joker and want batman thrown in jail instead. Why because this post modern age has no idea of what is right or wrong personal responsibility or honor. Some are hanging on to those old fashioned values but most are not. It was a slow process but the deconstruction of morality personal responsibility and other values that both batman and superman represented are now seen as quaint and out dated. If some one made him up today or superman for that matter it will not fly. and they would be unpopular. Well that is my take on it. Right and wrong is just a state of mind and everything is permitted let chaos reign is what this society wants. It has reached the point of critical mass. The culture is just exposing the result of that type of thinking. Or maybe I am just that old crazy man on the chair thinking about the good old days.
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:18 pm

ThatOneGuy wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:24 pm
Yeah, I remember that stream and I 'member Tiff being pro-Wonderbat which didn't really surprise me she seem to have a background in the arts specifically classical art(my guess) so it makes sense that she would like Wonderbat plus women tend to be pro Wonderbat a bit more for some reason. I find Joel and Sal(along with most comic book fans) subscribe to some falsehoods commonly repeated by people about Batman. Like the idea that he doesn't try redeeming his villains and isn't as "hopeful" as Superman. I remember both of them repeating the idea that the older they got the more they appreciate Superman and realize Batman was crazy which Segways perfectly into why I hate comics like White Knight;
Yeah I'm still surprised by how the majority of WonderBat fans I meet tend to be girls. This makes the one comment from a disgruntled SMWW cultist about how BMWW is just a "fantasy of the dudebro Batman fans" especially hilarious. Lots of projection going on there me thinks.

To be fair I don't watch enough of their streams to comment on any of this as I mostly watch their prerecorded stuff (e.g. Back issues), but I do remember that particular comment about them relating to Superman more as they grow older, because it annoyed me. Still I don't take everything they say seriously because you'll notice that they go back on forth on some stuff a lot. They're mostly trying to be entertaining. What matters the most about them is that they're rational and don't devolve into fanboyism, which means that I can count on them to provide reasonable critique most of the time.
wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:24 pm
It portrays Batman as a concept that needs fixing. Bruce is portrayed as a man on a selfish Childish Crusade who is blind to the real world and having the fucking Joker(and Harley) of all characters take the moral high ground is insulting;

"There is a difference between possessing a philosophic point that permeates ones work and having a tactical axe to grind which usually requires the artificial manipulation of character and usually result in shallow writing".

White Knight hides behind the "elseworld" label but an elseworld book is on that takes familiar characters and imagine them in a new situation not take familiar Worlds(in White Knights case BTAS and many more) and familiar costumes and put new people in them. The reason I am afraid of this is simple, it's easy to destroy a character's legacy just look at what DC allows to happen to Wonder woman people still think she is a dumb barbarian. Batman is dying a death of a thousand cuts people think White Knight is a valid take on Batman, they think the strawman Murphy erect so he could blow down is an accurate representation and critique of Batman. I am genuinely worried about the future of the character.
Ehhh....I'll have to preface this by saying that I only read through White Knight ONCE, and have yet to go back to it (not that I feel the need to), so my memory of it might be a lot fuzzier than yours. As I said before, I too take issue with the entire premise of White Knight and how it posits that Batman is a destructive force that makes more trouble than he solves. However I do remember that by the end the story basically showed that Batman wasn't wrong in everything he does, and that with the help of his family and the GCPD he would be able to accomplish even more.

I especially loved it when Barbara made Dick shut up with his whining about Bruce, that was basically a big moment of support for Bruce in the story. That's what I meant when I said that the story ended up being way better than what its premise suggested. I feared the worst would happen (think Tom King level bad) but was surprised to see the book taking a level headed approach all things considered. Even the explanation that Murphy gave for Bruce's rampage during the story made sense. Compare that to the garbage that King is doing right now and you will understand why I'm somewhat lenient on White Knight.

I share your same fears about how Batman's entire legacy as a character is being trampled on slowly with every passing year, hell we talked about this very same subject before, you know how I feel about it. However, I'm tired of being angry at every Batman book that DC publishes. Amidst all the garbage that King is producing and the depressingly underwhelming Detective Comics runs from both Tynion and Robinson, White Knight does stand out with its decent story and superb art. I don't want it to be the standard for how to write Batman in the future, but I highly doubt an Elseworlds mini series will do as much damage as the current main 105 issues Batman run.

Speaking of Elseworlds books, have you read Batman The Dark Prince Charming ? I wasn't aware that the second issue has dropped until I saw the TPB on Amazon. If you've read it, what did you think of it ? That one has a lot of Catwoman BTW.
wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:24 pm
We keep on addressing "Supergod" fans as if they are a minority. I think they are a plurality. I think it was always too late, most prominent Superman fans are "Supergod" fans they just happen to like Lois sometime. I think the whole messiah complex is an underlining aspect of Superman. Just like Noir and Gothicism is and underline part of Batman.
I don't how many of them are there but I don't think they're the majority seeing how much more successful Superman Rebirth was compared to the New 52. Both Tomasi and Jurgens wrote a fantastic Superman free of any messiah complex or Jesus parallels, which matches my interpretation of the character, so I do think there's a way to do the character correctly.

The issue with Superman is that many people want him to be something he isn't. They want him to be the main character and face of DC who everyone is in awe of, which is why we keep getting those Superman=Jesus stories where we keep being told of how awesome Superman is with little to show for it. Superman is simply not made for the spot light, unlike Batman and Wonder Woman. Another point is the massive inferiority complex most Superman fans have with Batman, and that includes DC itself. I think Superman, not unlike Batman, needs a course correction before his image is tarnished any further. At least unlike Bruce, things have improved for Clark since the New 52, so that's something.
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:08 pm

ARB wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:18 pm

Yeah I'm still surprised by how the majority of WonderBat fans I meet tend to be girls. This makes the one comment from a disgruntled SMWW cultist about how BMWW is just a "fantasy of the dudebro Batman fans" especially hilarious. Lots of projection going on there me thinks.
If Wonderbat is a dudebro fantasy why is Wonder woman the stronger of the two and is normally depicted as the initiator of the romance? SMWW fans just love projecting, we all know that its SMWW that reeks of "Dudebro-ism".
I think the reason women tend to like Wonderbat is that Bruce is a Romantic/Byronic Hero, women like that sort of thing it's especially evident when he is around Wonder woman who represents femininity (very well, obviously) without the narrative debasing her like with SMWW.

Speaking of Elseworlds books, have you read Batman The Dark Prince Charming ? I wasn't aware that the second issue has dropped until I saw the TPB on Amazon. If you've read it, what did you think of it ? That one has a lot of Catwoman BTW.
I haven't read Dark Prince Charming yet, it was on my radar but IDK I guess I just forget. The only thing I remember about it was the art and a Bruce illegitimate child plot.
I don't how many of them are there but I don't think they're the majority seeing how much more successful Superman Rebirth was compared to the New 52. Both Tomasi and Jurgens wrote a fantastic Superman free of any messiah complex or Jesus parallels, which matches my interpretation of the character, so I do think there's a way to do the character correctly.

The issue with Superman is that many people want him to be something he isn't. They want him to be the main character and face of DC who everyone is in awe of, which is why we keep getting those Superman=Jesus stories where we keep being told of how awesome Superman is with little to show for it. Superman is simply not made for the spot light, unlike Batman and Wonder Woman. Another point is the massive inferiority complex most Superman fans have with Batman, and that includes DC itself. I think Superman, not unlike Batman, needs a course correction before his image is tarnished any further. At least unlike Bruce, things have improved for Clark since the New 52, so that's something.
I don't think they are a majority either however I think they are a strong plurality. I agree with everything you said but most Superman fans won't especially the not made for the spotlight bit. Most Superman fans think he needs to be the center of the DC Universe and he should be the best there is.
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:45 pm

ThatOneGuy wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:08 pm
If Wonderbat is a dudebro fantasy why is Wonder woman the stronger of the two and is normally depicted as the initiator of the romance? SMWW fans just love projecting, we all know that its SMWW that reeks of "Dudebro-ism".
I think the reason women tend to like Wonderbat is that Bruce is a Romantic/Byronic Hero, women like that sort of thing it's especially evident when he is around Wonder woman who represents femininity (very well, obviously) without the narrative debasing her like with SMWW.
Yeah it's pretty hilarious when you think about it. To be fair I saw some BatCats making the same argument as well (in addition to the belts and notches one I kid you not), so the argument definitely reeks of desperation.

It's interesting when you think about how BMWW is almost tailor made to be successful as it hits all the right cords. A tortured male and a sunny bright female, lots of depth, the characters involved couldn't be anymore equal, the traditional power roles are reversed, and it also offers some potential angst. It makes you wonder what cosmic force is in play to prevent the ship from ever sailing.
wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:08 pm
I don't think they are a majority either however I think they are a strong plurality. I agree with everything you said but most Superman fans won't especially the not made for the spotlight bit. Most Superman fans think he needs to be the center of the DC Universe and he should be the best there is.
There is a weird obsession among Superman's fans with proving how much Superman matters. That's the inferiority complex I was speaking of. Even writers are guilty of this, as you'll notice how many excuses they try to make up for why Superman's project are not as successful (as Batman), some of them going so far as declaring that Superman's declining popularity must me a symptom of something being severely wrong with the world, after all there's absolutely no other reason for why the general audience might prefer more flawed and down to earth heroes compared to Superman.

It's just all too ridicules, and it all stems from the notion that since Superman is who started it all then the world awes him love and respect. Instead of focusing on what Superman does best, they instead want to turn him into the poster boy for DC who rakes in all the cash and attention. It's bizarre to say the least. I have no idea if this obsession will ever stop, but it's doing more harm to Superman's character than it's helping, and those obsessive Superman fans will end up being the characters undoing.
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:07 am

When do you guys think we will be seeing any small tease of Wonderbat in an official work?
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:35 am

ISAK wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:07 am
When do you guys think we will be seeing any small tease of Wonderbat in an official work?
A long long time.
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:41 pm

ISAK wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:07 am
When do you guys think we will be seeing any small tease of Wonderbat in an official work?
I'm holding out hope for Rucka's Black Label book.
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:35 pm

I think with the next WW movie coming out next year, they are going to focus on Wondertrev so it will be a while before we get any nods to Wonderbat (if ever again).
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:44 pm

Also with regards to why Wonderbat seems to be equally as popular with women as men is that women tend to come to comics after seeing the characters in another media. They are not bogged down as much with "comic book geek" mentality so they are open to non traditional pairings. Also Bruce and Diana in their non hero personas tend to move in the same circles. She's a princess, he's an aristocrat where SM and Trevor are more Everyman types. Women like the brooding billionaire and that one in a million girl that can win his heart.
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:31 pm

It's all so tiring. We only ever get a little tease whenever Warner Bros pretty much forces DC's hands with their adaptions due to synergy. Like the DCEU movies reminding people that Wonderbat is concept that exists with BvS, WW, and JL. But on the other hand, with Steve or no Steve, you still have DC pushing for SMWW no problem. Like with the upcoming Frank Miller's Superman: Year One comic-book and the upcoming DCAMU's Reign of Supermen movie.
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:01 pm

ISAK wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:07 am
When do you guys think we will be seeing any small tease of Wonderbat in an official work?
Well I think we can't say for sure until Tom King's time on Batman is over. If he ends the book predictably with Bruce back right where he found him, then anything could happen, especially BMWW as it slowly becoming the only thing DC has yet to give a real try. On the other hand, if King ends thing disastrously, something he really seems to be keen on doing, that could dash away any chances of BMWW happening for the near future.

One thing for sure though, is that if DC wasn't aware of the demand for BMWW, they have to be now. Just yesterday, Gail Simone (who I don't particularly like), asked people on Twitter to share their favorite ship. To may surprise BMWW ended up one of the most frequently mentioned ships by people, with a lot of new faces who I've never seen before talking about how much they love it.

Now that showed me two things. First is that BMWW is far more popular than what I've imagined. Second is that there a lot of casual or none-hardcore comic books fans who're much more familiar with BMWW rather than any of the garbage that's been happening in the books for the past 10 years. This definitely restored a lot of my confidence in BMWW's ability to break through the inevitable hate it will undoubtedly receive if DC ever tries to do it, which at this point is probably the biggest hurdle the relationship has to over come.

So who knows if BMWW will ever actually happen. I'm feeling somewhat positive and hopeful right now, but we all know how quickly all these feelings can be dashed away by DC. Still I'm really happy to see a strong community forming around BMWW, because DC and other writers need to take notice that this is something people want to see. Otherwise we'll need to at least wait until King is done with his garbage to see if there's any possibility of seeing BMWW. At this point I'm far more invested in seeing BMWW done in animation or movies to be honest. That DCAU reunion could be a Godsend if it ever ends up happening.
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:19 am

ARB wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:01 pm
Just yesterday, Gail Simone (who I don't particularly like), asked people on Twitter to share their favorite ship. To may surprise BMWW ended up one of the most frequently mentioned ships by people, with a lot of new faces who I've never seen before talking about how much they love it.
That most have irked Simone a bit, since she admittedly doesn't like Batman and is a SMWW shipper.
ARB wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:01 pm
I'm feeling somewhat positive and hopeful right now
Wow, the response most have been good then. You're usually more on the cautious side together with me.

So let me put throw a bit of cold water. The main opposition against Wonderbat right now is Jim Lee, who's currently the Chief Creative Officer, after Geoff Johns stepped down following Rebirth, AND Co-Publisher of DC Comics, together with Dan DiDio. Lee is a major SMWW shipper. He's the reason it got pushed as the next big thing during the New 52 reboot. He and Didio still believe that New 52 was a good thing. You can see them trying to keep it's status quo alive as best as they can. It's the reason why the Direct-to-DVD animated movies kept the New 52-inspired continuity instead of jettisoning it completely despite the producers knowing that the New 52 arcs they attempt to adapt didn't resonate with the buyers. So very low chances of getting any BMWW there.
What we can hope for is for readers to simple get tired enough of the Lee and Didio's leadership, and a lot of places ARE getting tired of them going back on all the Rebirth promises and all the current bad creative teams mishandling the characters. So hopefully we might see an editorial shakedown in the future.

What i'd like to see, and feel that the BMWW really need, is a Justice League book done by a great team in a prestige format featuring the pairing. Something like a Kingdom Come of sorts, but written well, of course. BLACK LABEL is the best line for it to happen.
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:05 am

ISAK wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:19 am
That most have irked Simone a bit, since she admittedly doesn't like Batman and is a SMWW shipper.
I assume so, especially since even Nicola chimed in a bit in support of BMWW. Hopefully Simone did not get whatever response she was looking for.
wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:19 am
Wow, the response most have been good then. You're usually more on the cautious side together with me.
It's not entirely because of the response on twitter, but that did help. There just haven't been many things to piss me off with DC lately (more than the usual I mean). King's Batman is still garbage, but it's so hilariously bad that I'm not feeling any kind of anger because of it. People are starting to get really vocal with their hate for his writing, and even review sites have started trashing his books, which should tell you how bad things are for him right now. He's been getting into lots of controversies lately as well, and seeing so many things going wrong for him puts me in good mood.

With all of that being said, I'm fully prepared for things to take a turn for the worse soon enough. We have the Frank Miller BS on the horizon, and King is bound to bring Catwoman into the Batman book sooner or later, and with that will come the infuriating writing once again. Expect to see people pissing themselves with excitement, proclaiming King as a genius and forgetting about all the crap he's been pulling. So I realize my current positivity is on a strict time limit, but I'm trying to enjoy it while it lasts
wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:19 am
So let me put throw a bit of cold water. The main opposition against Wonderbat right now is Jim Lee, who's currently the Chief Creative Officer, after Geoff Johns stepped down following Rebirth, AND Co-Publisher of DC Comics, together with Dan DiDio. Lee is a major SMWW shipper. He's the reason it got pushed as the next big thing during the New 52 reboot. He and Didio still believe that New 52 was a good thing. You can see them trying to keep it's status quo alive as best as they can. It's the reason why the Direct-to-DVD animated movies kept the New 52-inspired continuity instead of jettisoning it completely despite the producers knowing that the New 52 arcs they attempt to adapt didn't resonate with the buyers. So very low chances of getting any BMWW there.
What we can hope for is for readers to simple get tired enough of the Lee and Didio's leadership, and a lot of places ARE getting tired of them going back on all the Rebirth promises and all the current bad creative teams mishandling the characters. So hopefully we might see an editorial shakedown in the future.

What i'd like to see, and feel that the BMWW really need, is a Justice League book done by a great team in a prestige format featuring the pairing. Something like a Kingdom Come of sorts, but written well, of course. BLACK LABEL is the best line for it to happen.
I just see Lee as more of an enabler rather than a decision maker. I think Didio is the real problem, but even he ultimately cares about money above all else. Don't underestimate how desperate DC can get for money considering their entire line up has been selling less and less with every passing month. I remember watching an interview for Scott Snyder where he stated that the Batman book is the standard by which DC measures how healthy their sales are.

If Batman sells at least a 100K then they're doing fine according to Snyder. Now think about how King's Batman has been struggling to keep its numbers around the low to mid 90K, with only few issues where King pulls a stunt being able to sell a little above 100K. DC is not doing fine. They thought King was going to be their savior with Heroes in Crisis, but that book has been mired in controversies and it's not even half way through. Marvel is starting to outsell DC once again, and DC's own best sellers is GL of all books. If DC is not in a state of a panic right now I have no idea what else they could be doing.

The New 52 was an unmitigated failure, and the fact that it still survives in the form of the DC Animated Movies, which barely bring in 2 millions in sales, means very little. DC is in a very bad place, WB is in a very bad place regarding their DC properties as well. People are calling for a DCAU reunion because of how bad DC's Animated projects have become, and many of the current books with the "new and bold" directions are performing dismally. Writers like Scott Snyder who're writing in a style reminiscent of old DC are doing great, and Grant Morrison's recent return to DC with GL has been amazing.

Basically everything is screaming that the post New 52 era was a failure, and the way things used to be prior to the reboot were much better. So I'm hopeful for things to start changing in the near future. I mean they have to, or at least they can't get any worse then they are now. I'm still pulling for BMWW to be revived in an Animated form, as Animation is how the ship still survives today. Comic books barely reach anyone, and comic book readers are way more stubborn and toxic compared to the audience who would be interested in Animated shows/movies, so I see that as a much safer route to take.
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:06 am

ISAK wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:19 am

That most have irked Simone a bit, since she admittedly doesn't like Batman and is a SMWW shipper.
I almost bust a tit laughing when I saw the Simone tweet and the Wonderbat response. Man, when you are down the smallest victories feel so good. Even Nicola Scott got in on the action.
Wow, the response most have been good then. You're usually more on the cautious side together with me.

So let me put throw a bit of cold water. The main opposition against Wonderbat right now is Jim Lee, who's currently the Chief Creative Officer, after Geoff Johns stepped down following Rebirth, AND Co-Publisher of DC Comics, together with Dan DiDio. Lee is a major SMWW shipper. He's the reason it got pushed as the next big thing during the New 52 reboot. He and Didio still believe that New 52 was a good thing. You can see them trying to keep it's status quo alive as best as they can. It's the reason why the Direct-to-DVD animated movies kept the New 52-inspired continuity instead of jettisoning it completely despite the producers knowing that the New 52 arcs they attempt to adapt didn't resonate with the buyers. So very low chances of getting any BMWW there.
What we can hope for is for readers to simple get tired enough of the Lee and Didio's leadership, and a lot of places ARE getting tired of them going back on all the Rebirth promises and all the current bad creative teams mishandling the characters. So hopefully we might see an editorial shakedown in the future.

What i'd like to see, and feel that the BMWW really need, is a Justice League book done by a great team in a prestige format featuring the pairing. Something like a Kingdom Come of sorts, but written well, of course. BLACK LABEL is the best line for it to happen.
Kingdom Come but good, sounds about right. I think DC itself need a new "seminal" Graphic Novel. The last one was Red Son. I think we might get a Wonderbat arc in Snyder's Justice League hell who knows. Lee and Didio need to go, not just for Wonderbat sake but for DC sake.
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eurongreyo
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:47 am

ThatOneGuy wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:06 am
ISAK wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:19 am

That most have irked Simone a bit, since she admittedly doesn't like Batman and is a SMWW shipper.
I almost bust a tit laughing when I saw the Simone tweet and the Wonderbat response. Man, when you are down the smallest victories feel so good. Even Nicola Scott got in on the action.
Wow, the response most have been good then. You're usually more on the cautious side together with me.

So let me put throw a bit of cold water. The main opposition against Wonderbat right now is Jim Lee, who's currently the Chief Creative Officer, after Geoff Johns stepped down following Rebirth, AND Co-Publisher of DC Comics, together with Dan DiDio. Lee is a major SMWW shipper. He's the reason it got pushed as the next big thing during the New 52 reboot. He and Didio still believe that New 52 was a good thing. You can see them trying to keep it's status quo alive as best as they can. It's the reason why the Direct-to-DVD animated movies kept the New 52-inspired continuity instead of jettisoning it completely despite the producers knowing that the New 52 arcs they attempt to adapt didn't resonate with the buyers. So very low chances of getting any BMWW there.
What we can hope for is for readers to simple get tired enough of the Lee and Didio's leadership, and a lot of places ARE getting tired of them going back on all the Rebirth promises and all the current bad creative teams mishandling the characters. So hopefully we might see an editorial shakedown in the future.

What i'd like to see, and feel that the BMWW really need, is a Justice League book done by a great team in a prestige format featuring the pairing. Something like a Kingdom Come of sorts, but written well, of course. BLACK LABEL is the best line for it to happen.
Kingdom Come but good, sounds about right. I think DC itself need a new "seminal" Graphic Novel. The last one was Red Son. I think we might get a Wonderbat arc in Snyder's Justice League hell who knows. Lee and Didio need to go, not just for Wonderbat sake but for DC sake.
Can you link that tweet? She has like hundreds of tweets since yesterday and I dont feel like searching for it.
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