Wonderbat Blues

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The_GD_Patman
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:25 pm

eurongreyo wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:08 am
So I accidentaly came across the last mention of wonderbat before the NU52. This was published in June of 2011 and the reboot happened in July. Its kinda weird its mentioned just one month before completely going the opposite way.

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/JLA-80 ... =153595#61

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/JLA-80 ... =153595#62

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/JLA-80 ... =153595#63
It was a simpler time, it was a better time. Lol.

I agree the timing is a little interesting here... A last effort to cash in perhaps?
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:48 pm

It's the 80-page JLA thing, isn't? These type of comics are mostly written and drawn by newbies and have little oversight, and i guess with the reboot thing they were hardly paying attention to things. So the writer probably wrote BMWW in it since back then that's just how most people viewed Batman and Wonder Woman: as an item.
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:37 pm

That 80-page JLA book gave me both Bruce/Diana and Bruce/Zee, my two absolute favorite (and only) ships for Bruce (those and Talia if they wanted to go with an evil love interest). How the times have changed. This is telling of how easily influenced people are by the current storylines in comics, no matter how garbage they might be. Ever since Rebirth started all you see from any writer is BatCat all because of King's and DC's efforts to push the ship and Catwoman.

DC did a similar thing last year where they published a book with new talents on writing, and that book was all Catwoman and Steve Trevor. It cannot be understated how short the memory of comic book readers is. Ten years ago nobody even cared for BatCat or WWST, but now suddenly they're all anyone is talking about. Can't wait until the collective consciousnesses of the comic book industry cycles forward to the next stage. Perhaps then we can return to how things were pre N52.
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:44 pm

I just learned that originally that in the Justice League episodes of the Batman Beyond cartoon Wonder Woman would be one of the characters in the roster, with Old Bruce and Diana kinda being romantically linked still, but because of licensing reasons they had to change her for Big Barda. So that bummed me out.
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:23 am

ISAK wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:44 pm
I just learned that originally that in the Justice League episodes of the Batman Beyond cartoon Wonder Woman would be one of the characters in the roster, with Old Bruce and Diana kinda being romantically linked still, but because of licensing reasons they had to change her for Big Barda. So that bummed me out.
If that were the case we wouldnt have gotten those shitty JL Beyond comics where Diana left Bruce for Lord Batman. /sigh
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:51 am

eurongreyo wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:23 am
ISAK wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:44 pm
I just learned that originally that in the Justice League episodes of the Batman Beyond cartoon Wonder Woman would be one of the characters in the roster, with Old Bruce and Diana kinda being romantically linked still, but because of licensing reasons they had to change her for Big Barda. So that bummed me out.
If that were the case we wouldnt have gotten those shitty JL Beyond comics where Diana left Bruce for Lord Batman. /sigh
Actually writers of those comics wanted it to be revealed that Diana and Bruce has a daughter and she would be introduced to the new League and that would be a big reveal midway in the plot and involve Diana as the current queen or something like that.

And Tim and Co didn’t have plans for Diana to be romantically linked in Batman Beyond. Dwayne Mcduffie said it himself. They would’ve just had her act like Barda was in that episode.
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:52 am

theamerican wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:51 am
eurongreyo wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:23 am
ISAK wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:44 pm
I just learned that originally that in the Justice League episodes of the Batman Beyond cartoon Wonder Woman would be one of the characters in the roster, with Old Bruce and Diana kinda being romantically linked still, but because of licensing reasons they had to change her for Big Barda. So that bummed me out.
If that were the case we wouldnt have gotten those shitty JL Beyond comics where Diana left Bruce for Lord Batman. /sigh
Actually writers of those comics wanted it to be revealed that Diana and Bruce has a daughter and she would be introduced to the new League and that would be a big reveal midway in the plot and involve Diana as the current queen or something like that.

DC squashed it though

And Tim and Co didn’t have plans for Diana to be romantically linked in Batman Beyond. Dwayne Mcduffie said it himself. They would’ve just had her act like Barda was in that episode.
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:31 pm

theamerican wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:51 am
eurongreyo wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:23 am
ISAK wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:44 pm
I just learned that originally that in the Justice League episodes of the Batman Beyond cartoon Wonder Woman would be one of the characters in the roster, with Old Bruce and Diana kinda being romantically linked still, but because of licensing reasons they had to change her for Big Barda. So that bummed me out.
If that were the case we wouldnt have gotten those shitty JL Beyond comics where Diana left Bruce for Lord Batman. /sigh
Actually writers of those comics wanted it to be revealed that Diana and Bruce has a daughter and she would be introduced to the new League and that would be a big reveal midway in the plot and involve Diana as the current queen or something like that.

And Tim and Co didn’t have plans for Diana to be romantically linked in Batman Beyond. Dwayne Mcduffie said it himself. They would’ve just had her act like Barda was in that episode.
Didn't that particular Beyond series get cancelled? If so then oh, well. Should've green-lit the warrior child. Shit would've been much different.
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:39 pm

I think I might be the only person who's ok with what we ultimately got in the JL Beyond comic. The WonderBat daughter plot would've been infinitely more desirable of course, but I'm fine with the way things ended up unfolding. I think WonderBat having a bittersweet, somewhat tragic end kinda fits the relationship and the characters in my opinion, especially DCAU's Bruce.

On the other hand, we did get robbed off the chance of finally seeing what a WonderBat child would be like, and it was a daughter to boot, which would've been perfect. Who knows how good that story would've been, but seeing how other ships flourished on the back of craptastic stories, I don't think the scrapped WonderBat story would've been anything but beneficial in the long run.

I think what makes the JL Beyond comic thing sting the most is the fact that it gave a definite end to DCAU's WonderBat, and I can definitely see how that sucks. However, if things like the Merciless are anything to go by, I doubt that WonderBat's presence in the DCAU will be threatened any time soon.
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:14 pm

The problem with that stupid Digital First "tie-in" comic isn't that it gave us a definitive end to the Wonderbat ship, but that the end featured not only a SMWW relationship, but it gave us child byproduct of the said SMWW relationship, IN THE DCAU OF ALL PLACES! It even threw Wonder Woman characterization under the bus by portraying her as a more jaded and warrior-like person, a cliche of stories featuring SMWW paring. There's so much wrong with all of that.

That's why i consider these Digital First comics as non-canon, no matter what The Multiversity comic says. I don't care. It simple isn't canon. Not only because it gets tons of things from the cartoons wrong, but because of stupid things like that and its general awfulness.
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:31 pm

Perhaps I should've worded it differently. What I meant was that we were given a pretty bitter ending, featuring SMWW no less, for the definitive WonderBat verse, and that does suck I admit. Especially seeing how not even the recent DCAU movie can include any WonderBat in it. The story on its own however I don't necessarily find objectionable. It had SMWW true, but it was portrayed as being completely awful all the way through, and the SMWW kid was merely the product of machines. So it's not as if the comic supports SMWW. There's a reason why you never see the SMWW cultists referring to that story at all.

Ships aside, the story was well illustrated (by artist extraordinaire and BMWW enthusiast Dexter Soy). It featured multiple dimensions, evil JL, and even some BMWW (remember the ending). That's why I don't personally find the story offensive, but I understand why others might not be as kind to it as I am. I don't care whether they're meant to be canon, because it's clear that they won't really affect whatever future stories they want to make within the DCAU continuity.
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:03 pm

ISAK wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:14 pm
The problem with that stupid Digital First "tie-in" comic isn't that it gave us a definitive end to the Wonderbat ship, but that the end featured not only a SMWW relationship, but it gave us child byproduct of the said SMWW relationship, IN THE DCAU OF ALL PLACES! It even threw Wonder Woman characterization under the bus by portraying her as a more jaded and warrior-like person, a cliche of stories featuring SMWW paring. There's so much wrong with all of that.

That's why i consider these Digital First comics as non-canon, no matter what The Multiversity comic says. I don't care. It simple isn't canon. Not only because it gets tons of things from the cartoons wrong, but because of stupid things like that and its general awfulness.
Been saying this. Not canon because the developers of the show themselves didn't like this "ship". Therefore, they'd never do some stupid shit like this. It's just lee and didio's bullshit.
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:03 pm

Is there any way to undo the hearts you hit on a post? Because I just did this by accident.
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:24 pm

I can honestly see both sides of this argument. I don't particularly like the Beyond comic and I don't consider it canon but I don't hate it either. In a way it is settling, it feels like a "best we're going to get" scenario. I hope DC redos the whole thing this time with the fact Batman Beyond came out Before Justice League in mind so I personally think the Beyond Universe in a way is a "Bad" ending. There is no way JLU's Batman would turn out like the Beyond version of Bruce.
We should see a split Universe where Bruce ends up with Diana and Terry is their son, hell in JLU the episode The Once and Future Thing implies nothing is set in stone.



If DC wants to dust off the DCAU continuity again and do something interesting with it they should explore where and how certain characters choices created the Beyond Universe and how it could have been avoided and give us the alternative.
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Wed May 01, 2019 3:57 am

I still stand by what I said when starting off this topic. It's one of the biggest, hell, maybe the biggest fuck-over of the ship since the DCAU put it on the map. I will never accept such a stupid, misguided, mishandled piece of shit this is. This was NOT SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN. This universe is supposed to be THE UNIVERSE where these two gave in to their feelings and have a child. I have no idea where this story about lord Batman and all came from. Like...WHERE!?!?!?!??!? Someone was really just sitting there and thought this shit up without a care in the world for the VERY WELL WRITTEN established build-up between these two and called it canon. Just like that.

If there is anywhere that Wonderbat is home to it is this universe. I don't need people coming in here and writing up things that are wayyyyyyyy the fuck out there that messes with something that I love very very very VERY dearly.

I'm way too upset to be doing anything else but ranting about this right now. I want to squeeze my head off flat and kick it around and I'll do just that before I find anything like this acceptable. If I had to choose between some story from the deepest darkest part of HELL about a fake marriage and some cloned child or Bruce being alone and not living his life without his princess???????? This comic was a big trap. Some of the biggest bait I've ever seen. WE WERE BAITED.

This whole goddamn thing was SO unfair and so DISRESPECTFUL. How in all of absolute shit are you going to tell me that this is supposed to be DCAU Diana that just woke up and fell in love with lord Batman? WHAT IS THIS? I was not expecting that at all. Like actually reveal that they DATED off screen/page. It just hurts so much to see something like this.
It's a joke. I don't find this acceptable on anything that's floating out here in real life in our universe. This is the very thing that sets me on hellfire and makes me want to quit...but no my love for the relationship, the talks, the flirting, the warmth and the kisses outweighs me getting to that point. But it comes close. It really does. I'm just going to keep looking up fan art of them and waiting for more concrete things like I do every single day. Bruce needs growth. He needs to get out of this stupid hole that people keep making him circle around and back to Catwoman. Over and over. Put him into the hole with Wonder Woman and stay there. FOR. GOOD.
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Wed May 01, 2019 5:09 pm

All I'm saying is that this whole thing is far too overblown for something as small as a digital comic tie-in. I simply cannot bring myself to feel all this hate you guys are feeling for such a small side project, when the proper mainline comics themselves have been so horrendously bad for the past few years. In the grand scheme of things, the JL Beyond comic is pretty innocuous to be frank. Not to mention that as I've said it's fairly easy to write off as not canon. So I'm honestly surprised by the passionate hate towards it considering how small the comic was.
ThatOneGuy wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:24 pm
I can honestly see both sides of this argument. I don't particularly like the Beyond comic and I don't consider it canon but I don't hate it either. In a way it is settling, it feels like a "best we're going to get" scenario. I hope DC redos the whole thing this time with the fact Batman Beyond came out Before Justice League in mind so I personally think the Beyond Universe in a way is a "Bad" ending. There is no way JLU's Batman would turn out like the Beyond version of Bruce.
We should see a split Universe where Bruce ends up with Diana and Terry is their son, hell in JLU the episode The Once and Future Thing implies nothing is set in stone.

If DC wants to dust off the DCAU continuity again and do something interesting with it they should explore where and how certain characters choices created the Beyond Universe and how it could have been avoided and give us the alternative.
I'm afraid that requires commitment and actual willingness to do right by BMWW and its fans. Do you see anyone in DC or WB actually doing that ? Cause I don't. Going through all the trouble of retconning the DCAU and the Batman Beyond universe, which would be absurd given its popularity, all just to give Bruce a happy ending seems like far too much to expect from DC. Not to mention that there doesn't seem to be any real interest from either DC or WB to explore and promote the DCAU once again.

I totally agree that given what we know from JL/JLU, it's difficult to imagine Bruce turning into a bitter old man, Diana running off to the Justice Lords universe, and Superman ending up as a somewhat jaded loner, but it's not impossible. Things don't always work out and heroes don't always have the happiest endings. However, given the unique qualities of the DCAU and how amazing of a representation it remains today for the DCU, it's disheartening to see it go the way of many lesser comics from DC. It's tough to see such a greatly realized Universe end on such a sour note, especially for us BMWW fans who don't have any other alternatives to look to.

Sadly I don't see DC/WB seeing any of that or even feeling the need to go back and give something back to all the DCAU fans. I hope to be proven wrong but I can't say I'm too optimistic at this point, seeing how even DCAU related project are finding it difficult to do anything interesting, let alone any BMWW stuff. Still hoping for the best.
BatsGeek wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:03 pm
Is there any way to undo the hearts you hit on a post? Because I just did this by accident.
Click on the heart icon again....I think ?
wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 3:57 am
Bruce needs growth. He needs to get out of this stupid hole that people keep making him circle around and back to Catwoman. Over and over. Put him into the hole with Wonder Woman and stay there. FOR. GOOD.
LOL.
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Thu May 02, 2019 12:29 am

Nah, that doesn't work ARB. Already tried it on another post.
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Thu May 02, 2019 3:06 pm

Well then I'll give you a heart in return to compensate.
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Fri May 03, 2019 12:37 am

Well, i fucking hate the Beyond comics. Not only for that particular story, but because they were all badly written as whole. Should i remind you all about Barbara miscarriage in the early BB comics? It feels like a parody for how stupid and off-putting it is. I also know they were written in that dreadful period where Didio and Nelson's "DC Entertainment" where intent on pushing SMWW EVERYWHERE. But other than finding them terrible i don't care much about them. You just won't see me sparing any nice words for them.

And Warner Bros is usually very pro-Wonderbat, it's the DC side of things that's the problem.
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Re: Wonderbat Blues

Fri May 03, 2019 1:18 am

The Barbara thing happened in this same comic ? To be fair that was a concept introduced by Timm originally, although they didn't have to follow up on it. I only ever read and owned the Justice Lords arc TPB, which included all the issues from both the Beyond 2.0 comic and JL Beyond 2.0. My opinion and argument has been about this story arc in particular as it's the only one I've actually read.

I still stand by what I said about the story being ultimately innocuous, but I understand the feeling of being cheated out of what should've been a much different story (especially knowing what could've been), and being reminded of the awful times that most likely contributed to what shape the story ended up taking.

I'm no longer really sure of WB to be honest. I think my opinion will depend on what they will end up doing with the DCEU moving forward. I think from a huge movie company's perspective, putting the biggest male and female characters together makes sense, especially when there is no childish bias coloring their perspective. However given BMWW's complete absence from any animated movie in the past several years, and WB's decision to base everything on the New 52 makes things a lot murkier.
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