So we almost had a continuation of JLU in comic book form

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ThatOneGuy
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Re: So we almost had a continuation of JLU in comic book form

Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:13 pm

Interesting stuff, I think DC goes back to the DCAU when things get bad it's like a safety net for them. I things DC is at a tipping point right now. King is almost done and I don't think its an understatement to say things aren't going too well for DC generally speaking right now so when knows we might see something DCAU related soon.
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Re: So we almost had a continuation of JLU in comic book form

Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:20 pm

I don't think DC, or WB for that matter, are smart enough to do the logical thing though. The DCAU should have never been abandoned the way it is right now even after the shows have ended. The fact that everyone asking for the JL reunion to happen might as well be screaming into a void is telling of how much DC and WB seem to loath the DCAU and the success it had with fans. They'd rather churn out these N52 movies, that are getting progressively worse rather than take a single chance with another DCAU project, even when all the staff, VO's, and even the freakin' retired voice director are willing to come back.

I do think the reunion will happen, given the way some of the actors have been talking about it, but I have zero faith it will live up to the potential of the DCAU or the expectations that fans have at this point. Still, seeing the interest that people have in seeing more of the DCAU, especially more of WonderBat, is heartwarming. Even during the New 52 we had a long line of books based around the DCAU, so hopefully this pitch doesn't go unused. The small, shriveled part of me that can still feel hope wants to believe that this pitch of a sixth JLU season was not green lit because of the plans for more animated DCAU projects, but we all know that can't be it.
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Re: So we almost had a continuation of JLU in comic book form

Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:10 pm

DC let a good opportunity go to waste in the DCAU not just by letting the franchise itself die but by not recognizing their modern successes were all because of the DCAU. They should have kept some of the creators on board longer especially Dini it was off of Dini's back that the modern face of DC was built, no exaggeration without Dini and his contributions especially with regards to the Arkham franchise DC would be far less recognizable as a company today.

Dini should hold the position John's holds today, he should have been more instrumental in shaping key DC projects(Zatanna would have been DC's head girl but that isn't such a bad thing). I mean think about it DC manage to make a Cinematic Animated Universe long before Marvel, imagine if they manage to keep it up who knows how things would have turned out.

I was hearing talks of a Batman Beyond movie in the style of Spider-Verse, that would be amazing. Spider-Verse was such a good movie it is what WB Animation should be hell its what most DC characters should be, ultra stylized and well animated. While watching it I can't help but feel sad to know that DC probably will never make a movie that good, animated or otherwise and I don't even like Spider-Man that much.
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Re: So we almost had a continuation of JLU in comic book form

Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:17 pm

Ehh, I've seen many disgruntled DC fans who're obviously not fans of WonderBat literally curse the entire DCAU simply because it introduced the idea. You have people, who most likely wouldn't be the DC fans they're today without the DCAU, condemning it and the people who worked on it just because it didn't have BatCat. I legitimately recoiled in disgust when I saw some people talking like that. So never underestimate how petty and stupid some DC fans are, and those subsets of fans are always far louder than those who would love to see more of the DCAU.

My point is, DC/WB are pretty much slowly killing the love and respect that the DCAU has garnered over the years, as now you have a large part of DC fans who dislike it because of how different (read: better) it is compared to the comics, which has been the only version of the DCU accessible to the fans ever since the DCAU ended, and that happened more than 12 years ago. So instead of capitalizing on the success of the DCAU as you mentioned, DC did the exact opposite and slowly de-legitimized the DCAU by almost purposefully contradicting it in the comics, which created the kind of fans who despise the DCAU simply because it had WonderBat instead of BatCat, had a Batman who's more open and functional, or had a Superman who doesn't bench-press planets regularly.

Not sure about how much of the DCAU's success can be attributed to Dini, although he's a great writer no doubt. However the DCAU did have more key people involved especially in the later JL-era, the late Dwayne McDuffie being the most notable. Yeah if Dini had his way, Zee would've been a much more important character today, and she would've assuredly got together with Bruce. He was intent on doing that during his Detective Comics run if not for editorial interference forcing him to go with BatCat. I often fantasize how different Batman would've been today had things happened differently. I see that as the turning point that got us into the Tom King mess we're in today.

I heard the rumors about the Batman Beyond animated movie, and I do think that would be a great idea, but I'm not sure it's anything more than a rumor. I don't think Batman Beyond can be as light hearted as Spider-verse though, but knowing WB they'll simply try to copy Marvel's work, tone included, with not thought put behind it. I'm more interested in seeing the regular DCAU stuff at this point. A big cinematic release can wait.
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Re: So we almost had a continuation of JLU in comic book form

Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:58 pm

Yea I get what you were saying I was just looking at the whole DCAU conundrum from a different POV. The whole universe is so pivotal not just creativity wise but culturally too. I think the DCAU is up there with Crisis on Infinite Earth with how important it is in defining how we view DC characters. But I get what you're saying.

I think Dini especially is a very key figure in making the DCAU, not to diminish McDuffie he was also a key figure in all of it but I have seen his work in the Comics proper his Justice League Of America run in particular, while it isn't bad I just think Dini is a better creator and world builder his Detective Comics run is amazing and he wrote the two good Arkham games(John's consulted on the bad ones) plus A Dark Night A True Batman Story is a masterpiece. So personally if I had to pick one of the key DCAU creators it would without a doubt be Dini.

The Style of Spider-Verse is what I love just the art direction and how well it is made, I think DC should try to up their game style-wise in both animation and live-action they don't need to necessary copy Spider-Veres but knowing WB they probably would/will. As far as live-action goes they should probably kidnap Mathew Vaughn. Kingsman's fight scenes are some of the most "comic book-like" action's to ever be put to film. I would love to see something like that in a Batman movie, look I like the pseudo-realism of old, peaking with Marvel's Daredevil but I think its time to go in the opposite direction which is ultra stylized violence, just my opinion.
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Re: So we almost had a continuation of JLU in comic book form

Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:44 am

I totally agree that Dini is a fantastic writer, and I do wish he had more hand in the DCU. I guess you could file that as another one of DC's vindictive actions they've taken against the DCAU. Bringing Dini in to write a few high profile books would've been a no brainer for any sane people, but aside from his stint on Tec, Streets of Gotham, and Gotham City Sirens, I don't believe he ever got to write anything else for an extended amout of time. Although I wasn't aware Dini wrote any JL books (aside from his World's Greatest Heroes Anthology). The fact that he's been completely pushed aside after the New 52 should tell you all you need to know about how much contempt DC has for the DCAU.

The issue is that comic book folks are embarrassed to show the world what their hobby looks like even when comic book movies dominate the box office. Add to that the sheer incompetence of the people running the industry, and the childish pettiness they show to things or creators they don't like, and you'll see how things ended up the way they are now. We live in a world where a huge success like the DCAU has all but faded simply because a few people at the top didn't like what it did with the characters. Any other industry would jump at the chance of growing their successful products, but not the comic book industry. So I'm not holding my breath for DC/WB to wise up and pursue more authentic cinematic endeavors in the future. I mean the current comics themselves have lost their authenticity, so what hope is there for other mediums ? That's why their safest bet is simply to go back to what already work, namely the DCAU.
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Re: So we almost had a continuation of JLU in comic book form

Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:12 pm

I think the embarrassment factor is something but also the sense that every good take on a superhero must be a realistic take goes a long way. I wouldn't say Marvel movies are necessary comic book accurate, they are more accurate than DC ones but I wouldn't call them accurate.

Some characters like Captain America got a good deal but Thanos and Hulk, for example, are far different from their comic book counterpoint. I would love to see DC take it up a notch with true comic-book accuracy, a Wonder woman who can effortlessly bench press aircraft carriers and more. That's what I would like to see.
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Re: So we almost had a continuation of JLU in comic book form

Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:32 pm

You only need to look back at that JUSTICE LEAGUE ACTION! cartoon that debuted to little fanfare awhile back to see what DC think of the DCAU.
That cartoon was originally supposed to be a humorous love letter to the DCAU, in a format reminiscent of TEEN TITANS GO! cartoon. What TTG is to the old TT cartoon, JLA was supposed to be the same to the old JL/JLU cartoon. You had several producers and writers that worked on the DCAU back for it and a designer that was intentionally doing his own take on the Dini's art-style.
DC "Entertainment", though, was going through the whole New 52 reboot thing at the time and they straight up forced the producers and writers to follow a guide-line where they're obligated to use certain key characters, needed to portray them in a certain way - an example is Wonder Woman needing to be more aggressive and haughty in personality, and needing to carry a sword and shield at all times -, and, of course, had to make Superman and Wonder Woman the premier couple in it even if the cartoon couldn't develop it much with its time-frame. DC pretty much took something that was supposed to be a sort of humorous continuation to the DCAU and used it as a vehicle to push their stupid agendas pertaining certain characters representation. This was something that the producers and writers of the show actually confessed in exasperation.

Oh, and hi, guys! Haven't participated much. How are you all?
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Re: So we almost had a continuation of JLU in comic book form

Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:18 pm

I just don't understand who is exactly behind this and more importantly why? Who could be so hellbent to see their vision that they would force every aspect of DC to do there bidding? Most be someone very high up, someone, who can afford to make such financially ill-advised decisions. This is quite something.

By the way glad to be back I have missed this community.
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Re: So we almost had a continuation of JLU in comic book form

Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:19 pm

I used to think that the den of snakes was DC, with the WB people having a better track record with handling DC's different characters, but now the lines between the two have blurred so much that I can't tell anymore. I remember naively thinking that the DCEU will be a good thing for DC because it might force DC's hands to bring the comics more inline with it, given that the movie people running probably didn't hold the same prejudices as Dan Didio and his marry band, but what happened was the exact opposite. DC's incompetence has been bleeding into other medias instead, despite how little sense that makes.

Glad to have you back, ISAK. This place has gone awfully quite as of late, and things were starting to look bleak. I know there's barely anything to talk about regarding DC these days, but I'd hate to see this site die down, which is why I try to hang around regularly. Glad to see both you and ThatOneGuy show up again. At least we're getting close to seeing King leave Batman, so hopefully soon there'll be more stuff to talk about.
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Re: So we almost had a continuation of JLU in comic book form

Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:51 pm

Things used to be that way before. DC and Warner Bros has a little pact, where they were both free to do whatever they wanted with the DC property without having to consult each other. Paul Levitz, DC's previous President, even hid the publisher's accounting somewhere around Warner's Toy and Merchandising division. So that the publisher wouldn't draw much attention.
This, of course, all changed around 2011, when Dan Didio and Jim Lee took the publisher for themselves with the help of Warner Bros' executives by promising said clueless executives exciting new developments with the New 52 reboot and the creation of the new DC ENTERTAINMENT branding. Didio and Lee, and specially Geoff Johns - who's still trying to become a big movie writer/producer -, wanted more control over the cross-media stuff. The "DC ENTERTAINMENT" stuff meant a unified front between DC, the publisher, and Warner, the big media company. Where both sides had more of tighter relationship. The publisher's officers relocation was about this.
Of course things weren't so easy for them, since Zack Snyder pretty much ignored them all and just did whatever he wanted. So the only thing "DC E" could only really do was change things around when it came to the cartoons and animated movies.
But then BvS was met with a divisive reception, and well... you all know the rest. Johns took that chance to exert his influence and finally have a say on things, and then things spiraled even further from there with the New 52 reboot and the JL movie both going up in flames and... well, then DC Entertainment was no more.
Now Warner Bros fully control everything, although they're pretty much ignored everything DC when it come to comics and cartoons. And even then that's muddled, because now ATL&T owns everything and rumor is they aren't really happy with DC's management.

It's a big mess, is what it is.

Anyway, i just had to take some time off from comics, period. DC, MARVEL, Dynamite, what have you. I realize i would often get into new comics with the mind of: "Well, lets see if this new creative team can fix this property." at the back of my head, which is just a weird mindset to have when it comes to a hobby. Why even read something when it is like that? You're not having fun. So i decided to focus on other things. Specially when it came to distract myself on the downtime.
Still, i missed our talks a lot. So here i am. Glad to be back. DC is still a mess, though.
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Re: So we almost had a continuation of JLU in comic book form

Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:27 am

Just goes to show that the DCAU would've never got off the ground if it got pitched today. Even if it did it wouldn't be good at all. Came at the right time. Years before everything went to hell. I do a pretty good job at avoiding these new 52 films like one of the nastiest diseases that it literally is and Disney ain't been no different with the way they handle Marvel shows by shifting away from the good and bringing in the bad.
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Re: So we almost had a continuation of JLU in comic book form

Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:39 am

ISAK wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:51 pm
Things used to be that way before. DC and Warner Bros has a little pact, where they were both free to do whatever they wanted with the DC property without having to consult each other. Paul Levitz, DC's previous President, even hid the publisher's accounting somewhere around Warner's Toy and Merchandising division. So that the publisher wouldn't draw much attention.
This, of course, all changed around 2011, when Dan Didio and Jim Lee took the publisher for themselves with the help of Warner Bros' executives by promising said clueless executives exciting new developments with the New 52 reboot and the creation of the new DC ENTERTAINMENT branding. Didio and Lee, and specially Geoff Johns - who's still trying to become a big movie writer/producer -, wanted more control over the cross-media stuff. The "DC ENTERTAINMENT" stuff meant a unified front between DC, the publisher, and Warner, the big media company. Where both sides had more of tighter relationship. The publisher's officers relocation was about this.
Of course things weren't so easy for them, since Zack Snyder pretty much ignored them all and just did whatever he wanted. So the only thing "DC E" could only really do was change things around when it came to the cartoons and animated movies.
But then BvS was met with a divisive reception, and well... you all know the rest. Johns took that chance to exert his influence and finally have a say on things, and then things spiraled even further from there with the New 52 reboot and the JL movie both going up in flames and... well, then DC Entertainment was no more.
Now Warner Bros fully control everything, although they're pretty much ignored everything DC when it come to comics and cartoons. And even then that's muddled, because now ATL&T owns everything and rumor is they aren't really happy with DC's management.
Wow, this was quite the informative break down of the relationship between DC and WB. This only depresses me more to be honest. Dan Didio once again is the cause for all troubles that DC is having today, and his influence has extended to other mediums as well. I don't see this mess getting untangled or for things to go back to how they were pre N52 unfortunately. The New 52 is truly the gift that keeps on giving.
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