The so-called "Bat-God"

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The_GD_Patman
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The so-called "Bat-God"

Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:17 pm

I'm sure anyone that has ever had discourse with any other comic book fans (especially of the self-important and pissy variety) you've probably heard the charges against Batman of being written overpowered or as a "Mary sue". The sum total of these criticisms are compressed into the title "Bat-God". I myself personally think a lot of this is sour grapes or so misguided attempt at discouraging one (preeminently popular) character and elevating some other (past their prime, "overlooked" or lower tier) character.

Anyone else find this line of talk wanting?
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Re: The so-called "Bat-God"

Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:38 pm

Don't forget "Bat-God" in its verb variety "Batwank". I am tired of hearing these jingoist non-sensical talking points. Batman has the same "plot armor" as every other narratively important character. Lex or Brainiac is never going to kill Superman and they themselves are never going to really die unless the writer wants them to. Its ultimately up to writers to write "believable" and interesting stories its no characters fault if a writer isn't particularly good.

I think its mostly a matter of fan complaint. I think some fans think their favorite characters would be getting more of the proverbial spotlight if it wasn't for that meddling Batman. But the truth is that even if Batman was to be regulated to a "street-level" hero who is "just a guy dressed like a Bat" he would still be number one. I bet they would still cry Bat-God.
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Re: The so-called "Bat-God"

Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:29 pm

Really any character "can" be a Mary Sue, if written poorly. I usually save that title for those who are consistently written as such, like Ray from Star Wars. I've read and watched plenty of Batman stories when he has to struggle to succeed, people often just misconstrued competence and skill as being Over Powered. I see Batman as kind of like the Spy in Stratego, he can take out basically anyone if he can study them or catch him off guard but mostly everyone can take him out if they catch him unawares.
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Re: The so-called "Bat-God"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:01 am

The whole "BatGod" thing is such a ridicules concept that was born from the sheer fan entitlement and childishness that plagues many parts of the DC fandom. Many people like to use a completely different set of standards to judge Batman by compared to every other character at DC, and level complaints at him that could just as easily apply to many other characters as well, and yet it's always Batman that gets that kind of treatment. It's not even Batman but Bruce specifically that gets all the hate, as many people still demand that he be killed to allow for Dick to assume the mantle.

It's as if people can't accept that Bruce, him and HIM alone, is a fictional character in a fictional comic book universe. Those people have no problem accepting that Superman is a space alien from a race gifted with every single super power, who can literally shake off DEATH when it's convenient for him, but Batman being so skilled and resourceful that he could operate in a fictional universe such as DC just snaps their suspension of disbelief in half.

It's all just hate, pathetic and pitiful hate. The "complains" are just excuses made to justify hating on a character who's popularity rubs many people the wrong way. BatGod is nothing more than a cheap term coined for the sole reason of shutting down any rational discussion, as their arguments never stands to any sort of scrutiny. Unfortunately, the term stuck to the point that many people still use it today to refer to things like Grant Morrison's run on Batman, or even Scott Snyder's. A legendary run such Grant Morrison's can be dismissed entirely with one phrase nowadays because of that ridicules name.

This is the kind of mentality that gave way for things like King's current run on Batman. King's Batman is not a hero, let alone a superhero. He's just a miserable little man trying to act tough in a world with real heroes, who ultimately needs a lowly thief to be the one to put him back together, because that's how broken he is. This kind of portrayal strikes a cord with a specific kind of people, the kind who swear that they love Batman but only when he's written "right" (read: as a miserable low life who's not really a hero at all).

If you're wondering, this is the same kind of people who also hate the idea of BMWW, because Bruce is unworthy of being with Diana. Usually they don't go into too much details about it, but that's basically what they're saying. Those who support BatCat and those who support BMWW subscribe to two completely different versions of Batman. It's really all DC's fault in the end for screwing up their characters this much, and making romantic relationships that should be a subplot at most be one of the biggest factors that decide how their characters are written.
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Re: The so-called "Bat-God"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:39 am

I certainly am tired of hearing the terms that he's "just a guy in a bat costume" or "he's just a man!!!!1". No normal man does the shit he does like performing low level superhuman feats and being a super genius. Him being shown more than his Super Friends as a complaint can be applied to Spider-Man. Hell, even Black Panther nowadays since he took over the current season of Avengers. Bruce has gotten his ass kicked before and he can't beat everyone. So yeah...hate is real and it's annoying.
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Re: The so-called "Bat-God"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:09 am

ARB wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:01 am
The whole "BatGod" thing is such a ridicules concept that was born from the sheer fan entitlement and childishness that plagues many parts of the DC fandom. Many people like to use a completely different set of standards to judge Batman by compared to every other character at DC, and level complaints at him that could just as easily apply to many other characters as well, and yet it's always Batman that gets that kind of treatment. It's not even Batman but Bruce specifically that gets all the hate, as many people still demand that he be killed to allow for Dick to assume the mantle.

It's as if people can't accept that Bruce, him and HIM alone, is a fictional character in a fictional comic book universe. Those people have no problem accepting that Superman is a space alien from a race gifted with every single super power, who can literally shake off DEATH when it's convenient for him, but Batman being so skilled and resourceful that he could operate in a fictional universe such as DC just snaps their suspension of disbelief in half.

It's all just hate, pathetic and pitiful hate. The "complains" are just excuses made to justify hating on a character who's popularity rubs many people the wrong way. BatGod is nothing more than a cheap term coined for the sole reason of shutting down any rational discussion, as their arguments never stands to any sort of scrutiny. Unfortunately, the term stuck to the point that many people still use it today to refer to things like Grant Morrison's run on Batman, or even Scott Snyder's. A legendary run such Grant Morrison's can be dismissed entirely with one phrase nowadays because of that ridicules name.

This is the kind of mentality that gave way for things like King's current run on Batman. King's Batman is not a hero, let alone a superhero. He's just a miserable little man trying to act tough in a world with real heroes, who ultimately needs a lowly thief to be the one to put him back together, because that's how broken he is. This kind of portrayal strikes a cord with a specific kind of people, the kind who swear that they love Batman but only when he's written "right" (read: as a miserable low life who's not really a hero at all).

If you're wondering, this is the same kind of people who also hate the idea of BMWW, because Bruce is unworthy of being with Diana. Usually they don't go into too much details about it, but that's basically what they're saying. Those who support BatCat and those who support BMWW subscribe to two completely different versions of Batman. It's really all DC's fault in the end for screwing up their characters this much, and making romantic relationships that should be a subplot at most be one of the biggest factors that decide how their characters are written.
Another masterful take down ABR. I love watching people employ the "Bat-God" motif in one breath, only to then back pedal and start in with the excuses like "well, when he's written as..." or "I really love Batman, but..."

Jeez, they just need to stop with that. They have already been exposed at that point. But such is the loathsome state of pop-level fan-based critiques found on many a social platform.

Batman doesn't adequately fit into the Captain America/Iron Man/Black Panther/Dare Devil mold, and it is because he can easily borrow and amalgamate qualities of various other hero-types that he keeps himself interesting. All the facets do more to make the character new than anything else in his mythos. Harping on the "broken bat" as a long-term strategy is King's biggest failing. Trauma is not tantamount to characterization, but he seems to have missed that memo. A sustained psychotic episode doesn't necessarily make for interesting reading, and as we are seeing, it doesn't provide nearly enough content to maintain a long-form arc. Batman has been left as a shaky incompetent because Tom has gotten his understanding of who Bruce is from shit-posters and forum trolls.
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“These characters were like twelve-bar blues or other chord progressions. Given the basic parameters of Batman, different creators could play very different music.”
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Re: The so-called "Bat-God"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:50 pm

I'm so sad for Batman. I can't avoid feel bad for him. Like you know, in the new 52, and in the movies the writers are making him less that he is. They enjoy making Batman more miserable each year, and Tom King is the most obvious prove that they want to make Batman a street hero, and you know why: It's more important make more important to the heroes that have powers, and Stuperman is important 'cause is the USA symbol like Wonder Woman for their uniforms.
I hope that King don't back to make Bat*at the next numbers. And, I hope Batman recovers his true essence, that personality that makes Wonder Woman fall in love with him.
WonderBat forever!
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Re: The so-called "Bat-God"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:34 pm

People are getting tired of the broken Bat characterization, specially Tom King's take on it, because King went on and started to do the same with all of the DC characters, including Superman.
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Re: The so-called "Bat-God"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:26 pm

Very bad. I'm tired of that too. I'm wishing that King's finish his work and go out of DC.
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Re: The so-called "Bat-God"

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:47 pm

Personally I never saw him that way, quiet vice-versa, his abilities to overcome impossible odds just by his brain and planning are making him the best of all DC heroes also more relatable one, especially considering that in his good books and stories he is super-flawed to , unlike superman who is real Mare Sue and who are the most booring superhero ever.The best example of it is BvS Batman, who think out his way from impossible odds in terms of battle against superman, then created scenario and battlefield for Doomsday which minimized the causalities and made superheroes job easier, he did it solving this problems basically in short period of time also risking his own life trough all of it. Putting out horrendous Schumacher's Batman movies, in any other ones he always outsmart his enemies. The idiots who used to mock character with infamous "Because I'm Batman" are fans of HSIE or/and/also are retarded idiots who don't know shit about Batman whatsoever.
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Re: The so-called "Bat-God"

Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:39 pm

Well, that's true. The overrate Batman sometimes, but now they are making Batman less and they are making him just an incidental character or a simple character. That's not Batman, that's Superman. Batman is more complex than other heroes.
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Re: The so-called "Bat-God"

Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:22 pm

The_GD_Patman wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:09 am
Batman has been left as a shaky incompetent because Tom has gotten his understanding of who Bruce is from shit-posters and forum trolls.
This is pretty much the best way to sum up Tom King's Batman. A Batman written by a guy who doesn't love or respect the character, for those who don't love or respect the character either. This is not even exclusive to King, as almost every writer who gets to write Batman nowadays wants to "deconstruct" him and bust the "BatGod" myth. This misconception of Batman's character has become so ingrained in the conscious of readers today to the point that writers are starting to adapt that mentality. Only few writers like Snyder and Tomasi seem to embrace everything about Batman, while the rest seem intent on dissecting him until there's nothing left.

In King's world for example, Bruce is constantly made fun of and has jabs thrown at him by pretty much everybody for apparently being silly and his Batman costume being stupid and childish, and yet no other hero gets that same treatment. King seems to take Superman pretty seriously, with the only time he made any kind of jab at him being that one scene where Diana and Bruce ridiculed his "Up, up, and away" catchphrase, and that's it. Even Catwoman, a grown up woman dressed up in a cat themed gimp suit, is taken more seriously than Batman, because Bats are silly but Cats are sexy apparently.

As much as I loath Tom King, the problems Batman is facing now started a long time ago. Everything King is doing now are things that I feared would happen more than a decade ago, because all the ingredients were already there, they just needed a willing person to use them. That's why I always place the blame first and foremost on DC's management and editors, who have completely failed in maintaining a strong guideline for all writers to follow, because they themselves don't understand Batman either. So who knows if things will improve once King leaves, as we might just end up with another Tom King, as long as DC's higher ups don't change their ways.
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Re: The so-called "Bat-God"

Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:54 pm

Yes. I hate what they did to Batman. Yes, Batman is overrated many times, but the most part of time is great and keeps his scent and characteristics. But, DC has made Batman a weak and an insignificant character that is just a broken man with problems and always make the ridiculous. This is terrible, and the other heroes receive more respect, that knowing tha Batman is more complex character than any other superhero.
And it's true about DC comics ruined him and is still making more miserable and ridiculous each year. Batman is more than that. DC has to change their ways. And, they need to make #WonderBat once for all. But they have to write it well, 'cause obviously, Watching and reading WonderBat like Stuperwonder or Batbadcat or Wonder*ev would be an insult or a stupidity.
The only thing we can make is fight for WonderBat... No just kidding. But hav to make petitions or simplely infiltrate one of the WonderBatcrew in DC COmics.
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Re: The so-called "Bat-God"

Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:40 am

SuperMaster51 wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:54 pm
Yes. I hate what they did to Batman. Yes, Batman is overrated many times, but the most part of time is great and keeps his scent and characteristics. But, DC has made Batman a weak and an insignificant character that is just a broken man with problems and always make the ridiculous. This is terrible, and the other heroes receive more respect, that knowing tha Batman is more complex character than any other superhero.
And it's true about DC comics ruined him and is still making more miserable and ridiculous each year. Batman is more than that. DC has to change their ways. And, they need to make #WonderBat once for all. But they have to write it well, 'cause obviously, Watching and reading WonderBat like Stuperwonder or Batbadcat or Wonder*ev would be an insult or a stupidity.
The only thing we can make is fight for WonderBat... No just kidding. But hav to make petitions or simplely infiltrate one of the WonderBatcrew in DC COmics.
It's easy to became billionaire and buy DC , oh how much fun would I have in there
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Re: The so-called "Bat-God"

Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:18 am

TOMMM wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:40 am
SuperMaster51 wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:54 pm
Yes. I hate what they did to Batman. Yes, Batman is overrated many times, but the most part of time is great and keeps his scent and characteristics. But, DC has made Batman a weak and an insignificant character that is just a broken man with problems and always make the ridiculous. This is terrible, and the other heroes receive more respect, that knowing tha Batman is more complex character than any other superhero.
And it's true about DC comics ruined him and is still making more miserable and ridiculous each year. Batman is more than that. DC has to change their ways. And, they need to make #WonderBat once for all. But they have to write it well, 'cause obviously, Watching and reading WonderBat like Stuperwonder or Batbadcat or Wonder*ev would be an insult or a stupidity.
The only thing we can make is fight for WonderBat... No just kidding. But hav to make petitions or simplely infiltrate one of the WonderBatcrew in DC COmics.
It's easy to became billionaire and buy DC , oh how much fun would I have in there
I Imagine walking into the DC head office after purchasing it, dressed as Ledger's Joker, plopping down in the staff room and getting asked the question "so what's your plan here?" And answering "Simple, we kill Tom King's Batman".
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Re: The so-called "Bat-God"

Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:38 pm

I have that idea.
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Re: The so-called "Bat-God"

Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:14 am

The_GD_Patman wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:18 am
TOMMM wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:40 am
SuperMaster51 wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:54 pm
Yes. I hate what they did to Batman. Yes, Batman is overrated many times, but the most part of time is great and keeps his scent and characteristics. But, DC has made Batman a weak and an insignificant character that is just a broken man with problems and always make the ridiculous. This is terrible, and the other heroes receive more respect, that knowing tha Batman is more complex character than any other superhero.
And it's true about DC comics ruined him and is still making more miserable and ridiculous each year. Batman is more than that. DC has to change their ways. And, they need to make #WonderBat once for all. But they have to write it well, 'cause obviously, Watching and reading WonderBat like Stuperwonder or Batbadcat or Wonder*ev would be an insult or a stupidity.
The only thing we can make is fight for WonderBat... No just kidding. But hav to make petitions or simplely infiltrate one of the WonderBatcrew in DC COmics.
It's easy to became billionaire and buy DC , oh how much fun would I have in there
I Imagine walking into the DC head office after purchasing it, dressed as Ledger's Joker, plopping down in the staff room and getting asked the question "so what's your plan here?" And answering "Simple, we kill Tom King's Batman".
They wouldn't slip from my hand that easy, they must suffer for they ignorance towards readers, until they are purged from they sin)
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SuperMaster51
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Re: The so-called "Bat-God"

Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:43 pm

I bet you will do that soon.
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Re: The so-called "Bat-God"

Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:23 am

Tom King is the type who hates himself so that is how he rights batman as incompetent moron than a hero an add his politicial leanings to it to and you get the worst interpretation of batman ever. Even the the one of the 1950's is better than his dreck. Hopefully they can change it soon once if affects his popularity in cartoons tv and movies.
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Re: The so-called "Bat-God"

Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:23 am

I mean writes
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