Bat-books Talk

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ARB
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:52 pm

ISAK wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:26 pm
The only claim Catwoman can claim is of being the most enduring AND pushed one.
Speaking of pushing...



I genuinely face palmed when reading this. I think this is it guys. I'm afraid nothing will stop this madness at this point. DC is boldy claiming, with a straight face, that Catwoman "SHAPED" the past 80 years of Batman. This is what it looks like when the entirety of DC's big wigs are pushing for an idea as strongly as they could. No wonder King's trash run is allowed to continue.

The funny part is that the article doesn't even provide any evidence or examples for what the the character had accomplished, only that she existed and people like her. Yet DC is making an outrageous claim about how Catwoman has single handedly shaped the Bat universe on her own, because they know people will be ecstatic to read that.

I think I'm gonna go kick down a tree...or perhaps a wall.
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:12 pm

The articles says it is about the "Brilliant Women of Batman", so i hope they don't stop just as Catwoman as feature others in more articles. Preferred with the same kind of bold faced pompous advertisement.
I hope so, but it'll probably not happen.
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:19 pm

This is funny. The other women throughout Batman's history won't get the same treatment. Their accomplishments will be downplayed and hide especially Talia's, btw I love how all the comments are about how they should and will get married by the end of King's run, very funny.
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:56 pm

Funniest part was Bob Kane saying she wasn't supposed to be a murderer or evil... And yet she was pretty close to killing the Bat family or Batman himself throughout the late 60's up to a 1977 issue of Brave and the Bold that I think only slightly preceded that Earth 2 story.

This revisionist history is downright nauseating.
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:50 am

great I do not mind bruce finding happiness but it can not be found in the modern version of selina. They will say the golden age version was to submissive which is why that version worked she actually wanted to become a better person for herself and bruce not push him to the gutter with her. Also what about Julie Madison Silver St. Cloud Zatanna Diana or Dr Kinslovg who fixed bruces legs from banes first attack using her meta powers which cost her sanity or Sasha Bordeaux wow and Talia too.
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:23 am

So Tomasi and Mahnke did an interview with the Hollywood Reporter talking about their upcoming story in Detective Comics #1000, and the "new" villain they're introducing, the Arkham Knight.

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Link: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat- ... ht-1196180

I'll be lying if I said I wasn't excited by what they said. The idea of Batman as the biggest monster in Gotham, a creature lurking in the dark who people are unsure if he's human, is something that I wholeheartedly support. I know the premise of a yet another character accusing Batman of being the bad guy is going to be an immediate turn off to some (looking at you ThatOneGuy), but Tomasi is a writer I think I can trust to handle it right. Tomasi even says it himself, that the Arkham Knight's perspective is ultimately warped, so I'm confident he has the right idea going into this story.

I love how they reimagined the Arkham Knight as more of a proper Knight with medieval imagery. Fantasy and Swords & Sorcery are a favorite genres of mine, so I love how some of that is bleeding into a Batman story arc. Even the story arc itself is titled "Medieval", so Tomasi's and Mahnke's intent is very clear here. Their first arc on the book was great, and I'm so excited to see what more they've got in store for the book. Although Mahnke's absence will definitely be felt. Hope to see this book continues to embarrass King's travesty of a run.
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:18 pm

As long as the Arkham Knight isn't Jason Todd i'm fine with it.
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:43 pm

Looks good, the slight redesign of the Arkham Knight makes a hell of a difference. He looks far more unique and menacing than his OG iteration who was just a glorified mercenary. I really like the whole Sword and Sorcerery thing too, DC's Warlord Series is a low key favorite of mine and I love The Suit Of Sorrows and think Bruce should wear it more often well I loved it before Tynion ruined it.

But back to the topic at hand. I don't hate villains that think Batman is the bad guy, that's fine, what I hate is when the narrative validate their grievances especially if the root of their grievances are inherent to the comic book medium. Tynion's whole Victim Syndicate comes to mind. What makes Tynion's case especially bad is him using retconning to create said victims in the first place and retroactively making Batman more reckless.

I hope Tamasi delivers a great twist because this whole story relies on the twist or who knows maybe Tamasi subverts us all and go in an entirely new direction. Mahnke will be missed I have loved his art since his JLA days.
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:58 pm

Oh man the Suit of Sorrow was a favorite of mine as well. Too bad Tynion pawned it off to Azrael instead. It's amazing how many cool thematic and visual elements that Batman has, which DC almost systematically worked to purge out or transplant into other characters. Both DC and King have been working so hard to reduce Batman into a guy in a suit, just a mundane guy who gets routinely beaten and trounced by very much all villains he faces, with the only comfort in his life being the cat thief who's trying to fix his mommy issues. It's almost amazing the kind of work that DC put into destroying Batman's character and legacy given its expansive nature and magnitude. By far their most impressive character work I think.

I can't believe anyone could look at Tynion's run on Detective Comics with any fondness. Tynion is another example of a writer who simply doesn't get or truly love the character, and therefore should never write Batman. I'm amazed by how insistent Snyder is on dragging Tynion into everything he does. I dropped Tynion's Tec after an arc or two, around the time the Victim Syndicate has started I think, so I can't comment to how he handled it, but I don't doubt that he screwed things up. The only good thing about Tynion's run is that he restored Bruce's history with Zee, even if he didn't explore it much.

I'm confident in Tomasi's ability to handle this concept. Reading through the interview, you get a clear sense of how much both Tomasi and Manhke love Batman and his history, so I would at least trust them to respect the character. Also, Tomasi is doing a big "Batman and all his allies" story around May or June, and while he's sadly including Catwoman in there, Zatanna is also there and looks to have a big role. So hey that gets him a lot of point from me.
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:21 am

I'll laugh my ass off if he's just Jason Todd again!
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:20 am

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Heh.
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:31 am

What’s that from?
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:29 am

ARB wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:58 pm
Oh man the Suit of Sorrow was a favorite of mine as well. Too bad Tynion pawned it off to Azrael instead. It's amazing how many cool thematic and visual elements that Batman has, which DC almost systematically worked to purge out or transplant into other characters. Both DC and King have been working so hard to reduce Batman into a guy in a suit, just a mundane guy who gets routinely beaten and trounced by very much all villains he faces, with the only comfort in his life being the cat thief who's trying to fix his mommy issues. It's almost amazing the kind of work that DC put into destroying Batman's character and legacy given its expansive nature and magnitude. By far their most impressive character work I think.

I can't believe anyone could look at Tynion's run on Detective Comics with any fondness. Tynion is another example of a writer who simply doesn't get or truly love the character, and therefore should never write Batman. I'm amazed by how insistent Snyder is on dragging Tynion into everything he does. I dropped Tynion's Tec after an arc or two, around the time the Victim Syndicate has started I think, so I can't comment to how he handled it, but I don't doubt that he screwed things up. The only good thing about Tynion's run is that he restored Bruce's history with Zee, even if he didn't explore it much.

I'm confident in Tomasi's ability to handle this concept. Reading through the interview, you get a clear sense of how much both Tomasi and Manhke love Batman and his history, so I would at least trust them to respect the character. Also, Tomasi is doing a big "Batman and all his allies" story around May or June, and while he's sadly including Catwoman in there, Zatanna is also there and looks to have a big role. So hey that gets him a lot of point from me.
If I remember correctly The Suit Of Sorrows was always linked to The Sacred Order of Saint Dumas which in turn is linked to Azreal. What Tynion did was to strip it of its Mystical properties and make it technology instead while also adding some mind control into the mix for good measures. Pre-New 52 Bruce had the suit in the Batcave, well until it was stolen.

The problem with writers like Tynion isn't that they don't 'get' the character, its that they fundamentally view the character in a different light. I have said this before but it bears repeating. There are two different ideologically opposing view of Batman and writers like King and Tynion write the perfect Batman for some people. It all comes back to writers like Dixon who really started the whole divide. At the end of the day what powers the divide IMO is how important and prominent you think Batman's supporting cast should be. One portrayal of Batman absolutely needs his supporting cast to function while the other doesn't I will leave you to form any related conclusions.

Back to Tamasi, he also has a Spectre related crossover coming up which is great I can't help but feel we are back in the good ol'days of Detective Comics when other heroes especially more eclectic and mythical ones would feature in the book. Good times.
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:30 am

MrBlue1594 wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:31 am
What’s that from?
Nightwing vol. 2 #52
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:24 pm

ThatOneGuy wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:29 am
If I remember correctly The Suit Of Sorrows was always linked to The Sacred Order of Saint Dumas which in turn is linked to Azreal. What Tynion did was to strip it of its Mystical properties and make it technology instead while also adding some mind control into the mix for good measures. Pre-New 52 Bruce had the suit in the Batcave, well until it was stolen.

The problem with writers like Tynion isn't that they don't 'get' the character, its that they fundamentally view the character in a different light. I have said this before but it bears repeating. There are two different ideologically opposing view of Batman and writers like King and Tynion write the perfect Batman for some people. It all comes back to writers like Dixon who really started the whole divide. At the end of the day what powers the divide IMO is how important and prominent you think Batman's supporting cast should be. One portrayal of Batman absolutely needs his supporting cast to function while the other doesn't I will leave you to form any related conclusions.

Back to Tamasi, he also has a Spectre related crossover coming up which is great I can't help but feel we are back in the good ol'days of Detective Comics when other heroes especially more eclectic and mythical ones would feature in the book. Good times.
Yeah I remember that as well. My point is that the suit still belonged to Bruce, and it was a very cool piece of equipment both for its utility and lore, before some writer decided to give it to another character. That's something that's been happening a lot with Bruce, as DC has been slowly stripping him off of all the things unique to him, seemingly not wanting him to have anything not strictly speaking "realistic" and low level. Most of his more supernatural enemies and elements were transplanted into Batwoman, his more impressive traits have been steadily attributed more to the Robins and his other sidekicks, and most of his connections and rivalries with other villains have been slowly retconned into other characters as well. Anything with a whiff of mystique to it has been steadily getting purged out of Batman's universe, seemingly in the hope of capturing some of Nolan's Batman infamy. The funny thing is that Catwoman seems to be the only thing that Batman is allowed to keep.

I've said before that this campaign by DC to turn Batman into a mundane dude in a Halloween costume really only benefits Catwoman, who looks immediately out of the place the moment anything more than thugs and petty crimes are brought into the story. His rogue gallery has been pretty much reduced to Joker, Penguin, Two Face, and maybe Scarecrow, with the odd Hugo Strange or Ra's appearances here and there and that's it. Many elements and characters from the Batman world are still in use today, and quite extensively at that, but they have been so far removed from Batman himself, in a clear effort to distance them from him, to keep Batman in the small box that DC has made for him. That's why I lament the loss of the Suit of Sorrows because it represents Batman's downwards spiral into a dull and allegedly "realistic" character.

Tynion definitely doesn't "get" Bruce. He doesn't get why people love him, what makes him cool, and why he deserves to be treated with proper respect when standing next to characters who should be lower than him. That's why he wrote Bruce as incompetent and unintelligent for most of his run. That's why he continued to humiliate Bruce every time he wanted to wank one of his pet characters like Tim or Cass. Saying a writer doesn't get it might not be a good word to comprehensively describe the entire situation, but that's what I mean when I say the likes of Tynion and King simply don't get Batman and therefore should never touch him.

Tomasi's Batman has been nothing but delightful. It truly brought back memories of the pre New 52 era, when Bruce sounded like an intelligent, smart, and mature adult, not an emotional man-child. The good ol' days are far from being back, but I'll always support writers like Tomasi who clearly wants to bring back the glory days of DC, and he basis his writing on the stuff from that era. That's why I loved the Hellbat armour, as it reminded me of stuff like the Suit of Sorrow and times when Batman could be anything the writers wanted him to be. That's why I'm glad Tomasi is still keeping that suit around.
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:55 pm

So, Detective Comics #1000..... It's a thing that happened recently.
But seriously what did you guys think? I thought it sucked, the only story I can say that I liked was Dini's story, the rest of them ranged from OK to straight up mediocre.

Suck a dud of an issue especially compared to AC #1000. I remember Superman fans launching a preemptive bitch fit about how DC will put more effort into Detective Comics #1000, heh, looks like they were wrong.

The biggest talking point from the issue was a slash page from King's story of Batman bring the entire Batfamily together to talk a picture in costume in some random ally...that's it that's the one take away from Batman's grand celebratory issue just more Batfamily shenanigans really get the noggin jogging.
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:38 pm

Detective Comics #1000 was a thing that happened alright. The stories I """""""""liked""""""""""" were not many. Snyder's opener was entertaining, although I'm not sure how Batman can be the world's greatest detective while being schooled and upstaged by other characters in that regards most of the time. Kevin Smith's story genuinely surprised with how heartwarming and sweat it was, so much that not even Jim Lee's lackluster illustration could detract from it. Dini's story was hilarious and could've easily been an episode of BTAS. Warren Ellis' story was by far the coolest, and a great showcase of what he could do in a potential Batman book (hint hint....?). And that's pretty much it for me.

Priest's story seemed to be setting something up for the future, and while the prospect of Priest writing Batman does excite me, I didn't find his story here particularly exciting. Bendis' story was ok, but man Maleev's art is simply exquisite. Johns' and King's stories were by far the most laughable, with King's in particular being terrible as expected, so it was hilarious to see people praising it. I especially loved how one of Catwoman's two lines was "Meow". It's as if King is parodying himself at this point.

I agree that this whole thing seemed more like an advertisement for the Batfamily rather than a celebration of Batman's history. That's the thing about Batman, everyone wants the characters they love to be the ones to ride his coattails. Dick's fans want him to take over the Batman mantle, Jason's fans want him to be back in the family, Tim's and Damian's fans are fighting over who gets to be Robin, and Catwoman's fans are....well you know. It's so sad to see very little actual celebration of Batman's character in his own 80 years anniversary, but we already knew that was going to be the case, didn't we ?
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:04 am

I have realized something batman is more like goku than superman. He holds the world together without him the robins wouldnt exist catwoman would be somewhat popular but not that interesting because she is a theif. Though the villians can go throughout the dcu and shine. Example talia in superman. I would like to see poison ivy versus wonderwoman they might have sympathy for each other. Batman unlike the other characters in gotham have changed not bruce he is the original one punch man being a hard ass detective who comes out on top either out thinking or fighting his opponents. Maybe that is how much of the so call batman fans see him. He is the pillar for that part of the dcu . Superman only needs lois and maybe his son now. But batman could be stripped and be enjoyable still. That is why they hate him but yet need him so their characters can shine. That is why he is so popular he is like goku you can put him anywhere and he can fit but once his gone the world around him crumbles except for the villains who can be use elsewhere. I would kill for a batman story written by Miura who writes berserk or the writer of my hero acadamia I wonder how they would write him. I think they would do an incredible job. Well that is my take on this.
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:38 pm

Someone just posted some spoilers from Tom King's run on 4chan.
Just read Batman #69. Batman breaks out of the nightmare by acknowledging his greatest fear: that he doesn't actually love Catwoman.

Just prepping you for the storytime. You can thank me later.
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Update. I just read the issue. It's just more of the same. Bruce can't love anyone, anything - it's not just Catwoman - because he just loves being Batman more. The same bullshit about the "vow" of dedicating himself to fighting crime being the his own method of suicide. Like Catwoman says in the comic he forswore any possibility of love in life and instead embraced a life made up of endless war.
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:20 am

Oh boy...
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All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die- Roy Batty

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