Bat-books Talk

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BatsGeek
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:12 pm

MrBlue1594 wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:04 am
Why do you guys think it’s popular to shit on Bruce nowadays? I see it a lot on twitter and other sites recently, and I find it rather irksome.
They're just trying to get a rise out of people and think it's funny. Always making fun of him and stating that his fellow League teammates would make quick work of Bruce even though he can do the same. Things like this and hikiteia are usually being brought up which bothers me the most. The jokes are really old. You hardly ever see the X-Men or Web Head getting slandered like this when they've got lots of games, comics, movies, etc. like Batman does so they pick and choose who to be annoyed with.
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:04 am

Tom King blocked me on Twitter! This is one of life’s greatest achievements.
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:59 pm

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Diana is back in the second issue. Nice.
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:59 am

I don’t know why, but old school Kyle Rayner got me hyped.
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:01 pm

ISAK wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:59 pm
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Diana is back in the second issue. Nice.
Was glad to see Diana is coming back for issue #2. I was disappointed when I thought we've seen the last of her after a single issue, but seeing her accompanying Bruce both makes sense and keeps the possibilities open for her to be involved further in the story. We barely get any chance to read interactions between the two, so here's hoping Snyder doesn't skimp on the BMWW chemistry.
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:18 am

ISAK wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:59 pm
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Diana is back in the second issue. Nice.
Man, I'm not sure what it is but anyone else think that Greg Capullo's art is just not up-to-scratch here? It seems a bit rougher than usual.

And I know, I know, but Diana's mohawk design grates something awful on me.
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:46 pm

RadicalLogic wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:18 am
Man, I'm not sure what it is but anyone else think that Greg Capullo's art is just not up-to-scratch here? It seems a bit rougher than usual.

And I know, I know, but Diana's mohawk design grates something awful on me.
I don't know about this particular page, but the first issue had one of Capullo's best work in my opinion. I don't find Mohawk Diana appealing either. It's one of those typical post apocalyptic tropes that you can always expect to see in this kind of settings.
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:53 am

Just read the second issue. Wonder Woman's along for the ride throughout the entire book. It... it is great. Not only her presence, but the interaction between the two. It's heartfelt. I feel like i'm reading Joe Kelley's JLA back in 2000s.
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:58 am

If the news is still good when the storyline finishes I'll pick it up as the trade. DC has disappointed me a lot recently with their Batman comics.
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:41 pm

ISAK wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:53 am
Just read the second issue. Wonder Woman's along for the ride throughout the entire book. It... it is great. Not only her presence, but the interaction between the two. It's heartfelt. I feel like i'm reading Joe Kelley's JLA back in 2000s.
Man this was a lot better than what I expected. The premise of the story was intriguing enough on its own for my taste. It's basically "Old Man Bats", with the all the crazy shenanigans that a a post apocalyptic future entails, and I love those types of stories. I wish we could've seen more of this apocalyptic DCU though. It seems that Snyder glossed over lots of it in narration. On Diana...

Well colour me surprised. After the way Diana existed the story last issue, I honestly thought that was it for her involvement in the story. Based on the previews, I expected Clark to have the bigger role, but what a swerve Snyder managed to pull. Diana is basically the deuteragonist of the story at this point, and I did not see that coming in the least. It seems to me that Snyder is getting the last few things that he wanted to do with Batman out of his system with this story. Last Knight turning into a BM/WW buddy adventure is certainly the last thing I expected. It helps that Snyder writes the two really well, and their chemistry really shined through in the story.

One more thing...
Spoiler: Show
One thing confused be when reading the story. Who's exactly narrating the story here ? The text bubbles are all written the same so I can't tell who's supposed to be narrating. Some times it feel like it's supposed to be the Joker, and some times it sounds like Bruce himself is narrating. However, these panels in particular confused me even more.

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The narrator here speaks about something that Diana was doing after the great apocalypse, and after the death of Bruce and Clark. Who's the "old flame" that Diana waited for ? Depending on what this means, issue #3 might be really exciting
I'm digging Omega, as I am a sucker for evil Batmen. His identity has also become more intriguing now that the possibility of him not simply being another Robin gone evil has been presented. The third issue will make or break this story, and seeing how endings have historically been Snyder's weak point, I'm praying he sticks the landing on this one, because the story so far has been great.
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:54 pm

It definitely still feels like the Joker narrating as Bruce isn't likely to be making a joke like that.
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:04 am

I just find it weird that the Jokerhead would talk about Diana as if he knows her or what she was up to between the apocalypse hitting and Bruce waking up. Of course, the Jokerhead is probably not what he seems to be. In fact I'm not even sure if any character acknowledged his existence aside from Bruce now that I think about it. Still, hoping that "old flames" line ends up meaning something.
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:03 pm

Since it happened in what was once Washington, DC, it could be a reference to Steve Trevor. Just saying.
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:17 pm

I thought of that..........but that didn't really make much sense. Why reference Steve all of a sudden, when he hasn't shown up in the story, and is very unlikely to do so ? It could be a throwaway line meant to reference Steve, certainly the mention of Washington would make sense then, but that would be very disappointing if it was.

I went and re-read both issues just to see if there's something I missed going through them the first time, and I noticed two things. First, this is a really good book, and an instant classic if Snyder manages to stick the landing with issue 3. Second, Diana's first meeting with the revived Bruce was a lot warmer than I realized. Reading it the first time I didn't pay much attention to it, but after the second issue, there's definitely something going on with Diana and Bruce that she is not talking about.

Diana's line about how she remembers things that the revived Bruce doesn't seemed quite melancholic, as if she's sad that he wasn't there (or didn't have the memory of being there ?). Then there's the fact that she seemed weirdly insistent on having Bruce abandon his quest and accompany her. And then you add to that the fact that she followed him all the way to the Plains of Solitude even after making it clear that she intended to go to the Underworld and leave everything behind. Finally, you have that "Because you're the one who held the door open that time" line, which we have no idea what it means. Diana seems to think of that moment fondly judging by her expression, whatever that moment was. On top of all of that, Diana did not seem surprised when meeting the young Bruce, trusting him immediately, and she even kept his Batsuit presumably waiting for his return. She doesn't even seem to hold the whole "killing the world" business against him.

That's why the "old flames" line confused me, because it seems to be a foreshadowing rather than a throwaway reference. Not sure what Snyder is setting up her, but as a WonderBat shipper, this story is starting to read in a very particular way. That's not helped by BMWW's tendency to pop up in post-apocalyptic, dying worlds. It could all mean nothing of course. It wouldn't be the first time that what I thought was foreshadowing turned out to be nothing. Still, Diana is basically the heroine of the book at this point, and is the only major JL member still alive in this future, so I'm expecting her to play a big role in the final issue, regardless of any potential BMWW.
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:29 pm

ARB wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:17 pm
That's not helped by BMWW's tendency to pop up in post-apocalyptic, dying worlds.
What? I thought that was a SMWW thing.
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:01 pm

ISAK wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:29 pm
What? I thought that was a SMWW thing.
I mean.....I don't know ? I was thinking of stuff like JL Beyond 2.0, and the Merciless when I wrote that. The most famous SMWW stories that come to mind are Kingdom Come and TDKSA, neither of which are post apocalyptic. I guess you were thinking of Distant Fires, but that's hardly the first SMWW story that comes to mind. I don't know, but in my head war seems like an often used device to start BMWW. More than a few stories used the idea of Diana and Bruce being brothers in arms who find kinship in the battlefield, so the concept seem to have stuck in my head. Didn't one of the original JL scripts had Diana and Bruce get together during the war humanity had against Darkseid ? Last Knight on Earth reminds me of these type of stories quite a bit, which is why my BMWW senses started tingling.

Anyway, disregarding that one part of my post, do you think I'm on to something here ? I re-read the first two issues of Last Knight, now with my WonderBat shipping goggles on, and I'm starting to feel there's some potential here. My shipping goggles are not playing tricks on me here, are they ?
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:16 pm

Sorry, is that i had put in my head that SMWW mostly happens whenever the worlds heads to the shitter, which i guess is only fitting. You've got: Kingdom Come, Distant Fire, Created Equal, The Dark Knight Strikes Again, Act of God, The New 52 (heh), Justice League Beyond 2.0 (God, i still hate this story). Meanwhile, for me, WWBM happens in stabler worlds: Post-CoIE, DCAU (ignore Justice League Beyond 2.0), and so on. So i head in my head that good universe = WWBM, bad universe = SMWW. Maybe it is my pettiness speaking. Since you're write about the Will Beal's Justice League movie script that went into production before Zack Snyder's Man of Steel movie was made.

I haven't reread the two issues. I'm going to do that know and paying extra attention, but either way there's definitely some shipping going on from the part of Scott Snyder. Wonder Woman kept the original Batman's suit box, despite knowing that he had died, or so it seems. Why would she hold a memento of him and not of everyone's else from the Justice League? Where's Superman's suit and cape or something to that effect? She displayed anger for Alfred's idea when describing how he had wanted to use the clone tech to manufacture a clone of Bruce Wayne. Like as if she had felt it was sacrilegious. Wonder Woman has displayed some very strong emotion whenever it comes to Batman.
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:20 am

I'll admit, your memory is a lot better than mine when it comes to SMWW. I think this is just my personal headcanon affecting my views on BMWW. In my head, any story where the heroes are forced into a resistance or a last stand scenario, the first character that comes to mind in such a situation is Bruce, followed by Diana (which is why the way Injustice handled Diana's character was such a shame). That's probably why the JL Beyond 2.0 comic stuck in my head. I know you hate it, but I still think it's a decent tragic BMWW story. Things are not helped by my personal belief that both Batman and BMWW should have tragic, albeit bittersweet endings.

Back on topic. I agree that there seems to be some obvious BMWW shipping going on once you put your shipper goggles on. As a BMWW fan, I've developed a kind of anti-shipping goggles because of how many times we were strung along and ended up disappointed in the past, but I think there's enough promise here to dust off our BMWW goggles for one last time. See I'm conflicted here. On one hand, I don't see why Snyder would pull something as controversial as BMWW in his alleged last Batman story. That would take away focus from Batman himself and turn the story into something else completely. On the other hand, this IS Snyder's final Batman story, so perhaps he's trying to scratch off the last few things of his "to-do" list before leaving the character, and he seemed to be a fan of BMWW in the past.

Initially, I assumed things like Diana keeping Bruce's suit, were done simply because she's the last major character available, and was given the task because it justified her appearance, before she completely existed the story. Issue #2 however completely changed my perspective on Diana's role in the story. Suddenly she's the heroine of the book, and now I feel that her scenes in issue #1 read completely differently. I just don't know how to feel. This is BMWW so it's never safe to assume the best, but the way Snyder set things up seem to be hinting towards some good stuff. I'm still opting to keep my expectations in check, but it would be a real shame if all of this ends up leading nowhere, I mean, Bruce and Diana are literally the last two major heroes alive on Earth, with Bruce being the last male hero period. If that's not enough to get some BMWW, I don't know what is.
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:21 am

I'm kind of doubting that it's BM/WW shipping and probably just Snyder wanting to write a Batman/Wonder Woman buddy cop story. A lot of their interactions kind of remind me of some Batman/Superman interactions that I've seen in his stories, which could be weirdly homoerotic at times too. Still, I'll take anything I can get at this point and who the hell knows what the future holds.

That being said, ugh, Capullo's art is just not doing it for me this issue. Story was fun but maaan. I'm hoping it's just a one-time thing and next issue is back up to his usual standard.
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Re: Bat-books Talk

Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:43 am

For sure there's nothing overtly shippy about the book so far, but I'd still say the way Diana is interacting with Bruce is a bit warmer than a typical buddy cop adventure. It's subtle enough that it could very well be nothing, but there is enough there that it could lead to something, i.e. your typical BMWW story. I totally agree that BMWW has a similar dynamic to BM/SM, which itself has a similar dynamic to Clark's and Lois' relationship. That's what I always tell people who claim that BMWW is completely out of character and makes no sense (which is complete rubbish).

Come to think of it, Diana insisted that Bruce accompanies her to the Underworld, in order to "Start over".......the group of survivors she's leading has no other surviving male heroes, and judging by all the characters that showed up in the river of the dead, barely anyone is left alive anyway. So Diana is literally asking the last long time friend of her, who she has a romantic history with depending on continuity, to follow her and start a new life.......if that's not a set up for a post apocalyptic BMWW story, I don't know what is.

I'm really enjoying the art in this book so I can't say I see your point of view here. Even mohawk Diana kinda grew on me (not really, but I think he drew her better this issue), and his Bruce is as good looking as ever (although I dislike how short Capullo likes to draw Bruce). Overall, pretty good. My one complaint is the lack of backgrounds in some panels.
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