Bat-books Talk

Moderators: Chaosmob, Isis, DaisyJane
User avatar
The_GD_Patman
Titan
Posts: 470
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:01 pm
Location: Michigan
x 37

Re: Bat-books Talk

Thu May 30, 2019 8:48 am

And to add to the Tom King shit show...

https://aux.avclub.com/heroes-in-crisis ... 060614/amp
0 x
“These characters were like twelve-bar blues or other chord progressions. Given the basic parameters of Batman, different creators could play very different music.”
― Grant Morrison

User avatar
ARB
Justice League
Posts: 1859
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:13 pm
x 503

Re: Bat-books Talk

Thu May 30, 2019 11:42 am

Love how everyone is being so quiet about Heroes in Crisis. When King's BS proves to be too much to defend, it just gets ignored. OOOH HEY GUYS LOOK TOM KING IS WRITING A MOVIE ISN'T THAT AWESOME !!!

Just in case anyone had any doubts about how King is actively being pushed and protected for whatever reason. This is why I was shocked to see his Batman run get sacked. It must've took a lot of resolve from DC to do that. That's why I hate the narrative that many are trying to push about how King is this poor helpless soul who was wronged by the powers that be. The fact that DC decided to kick him off the book pretty much means they could no longer protect him, or someone really high up intervened and forced their hands.

In any case, I have a lot of doubts that we will ever see that New Gods movie, with or without King. Hopefully this will just be another public embarrassment for him. I trust King's inability to produce anything enjoyable.
1 x
Image

User avatar
DaisyJane
Justice League
Posts: 6383
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:52 pm
Justice League Membership: Donna Troy
Location: Los Angeles
x 244
Contact:

Re: Bat-books Talk

Thu May 30, 2019 1:58 pm

They announced the New Gods movie over a year ago and they are now just finding a writer. I don't think they have any real faith in the director and that the movie seems to be in development Hell. So they will have Tom King do a draft and when it is crap they can just kill the project and move on.
2 x
FU DC

User avatar
The_GD_Patman
Titan
Posts: 470
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:01 pm
Location: Michigan
x 37

Re: Bat-books Talk

Thu May 30, 2019 2:22 pm

ARB wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 11:42 am
Love how everyone is being so quiet about Heroes in Crisis. When King's BS proves to be too much to defend, it just gets ignored. OOOH HEY GUYS LOOK TOM KING IS WRITING A MOVIE ISN'T THAT AWESOME !!!

Just in case anyone had any doubts about how King is actively being pushed and protected for whatever reason. This is why I was shocked to see his Batman run get sacked. It must've took a lot of resolve from DC to do that. That's why I hate the narrative that many are trying to push about how King is this poor helpless soul who was wronged by the powers that be. The fact that DC decided to kick him off the book pretty much means they could no longer protect him, or someone really high up intervened and forced their hands.

In any case, I have a lot of doubts that we will ever see that New Gods movie, with or without King. Hopefully this will just be another public embarrassment for him. I trust King's inability to produce anything enjoyable.
Oh man, the amount of repetitive dialog and lamp-shading are going to kill this thing faster than its assuredly convoluted and lackluster ending. IF this movie ever sees the light of day, it'll be another supposed black mark against the DCEU in the minds of its detractors, as I can only imagine the tone of this film to play out like a meth-induced fever dream full of boring and cheesy character interactions. DC/WB are ready to shit the bed again I see...
0 x
“These characters were like twelve-bar blues or other chord progressions. Given the basic parameters of Batman, different creators could play very different music.”
― Grant Morrison

User avatar
DaisyJane
Justice League
Posts: 6383
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:52 pm
Justice League Membership: Donna Troy
Location: Los Angeles
x 244
Contact:

Re: Bat-books Talk

Thu May 30, 2019 2:53 pm

Back to Heroes In Crisis, OMG did Tom King put in another picture of Selina meowing. Nails on a chalkboard cringe.
1 x
FU DC

User avatar
Grendle1853
Justice League
Posts: 7673
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:53 pm
Justice League Membership: Martian Man-Hunter
Location: Harrisburg
x 80

Re: Bat-books Talk

Thu May 30, 2019 3:12 pm

Tom King really only has one trick in his bag, and its a trick that gets old real fast.
1 x
Image
All thanks to Aries for helping me change my avatar.

User avatar
ARB
Justice League
Posts: 1859
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:13 pm
x 503

Re: Bat-books Talk

Fri May 31, 2019 4:54 pm

DaisyJane wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 2:53 pm
Back to Heroes In Crisis, OMG did Tom King put in another picture of Selina meowing. Nails on a chalkboard cringe.
I saw some Catwoman fans trying to defend it by claiming that it showed her depth of character and how she refuses to depend emotionally on anyone. "Meow" is apparently Catwoman's catchphrase (which only just now became a thing after King introduced it), which is why King used it there to show her rebellious and defiant personality. Never mind the reason why Catwoman went to sanctuary in the first place. She made the trip all the way to sanctuary just to show the heroes what's what.

I pray that the day never comes when I devolve into the absolute insanity that the Catwoman fanbase is.
0 x
Image

no avatar
MrBlue1594
Sidekick Trainee
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:13 am
x 6

Re: Bat-books Talk

Fri May 31, 2019 7:18 pm

I’m gonna say something controversial here- I like Catwoman. I think she’s a good character with a rich history, and when written by the right people can be really interesting and fun to read. HOWEVER, writers like Tom King do nothing but relegate her to being Batman’s endgame love interest, which is nothing but detrimental to both characters. It makes no sense for Batman to just ignore her criminal activities just because he likes to make out with her sometimes, and when she becomes his love interest that’s all she becomes as a character, and can never move past the shadow that casts over her.
0 x
Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens- J.R.R. Tolkien

All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die- Roy Batty

User avatar
DaisyJane
Justice League
Posts: 6383
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:52 pm
Justice League Membership: Donna Troy
Location: Los Angeles
x 244
Contact:

Re: Bat-books Talk

Fri May 31, 2019 8:24 pm

I don't dislike Selina either which is why what the way King has written her pisses me off. BatCat fans are not fans of either Batman or Catwoman, they are only fans of the ship. King making Selina a Mary Sue is irksome and makes her uninteresting. The meowing is just freaking weird and subtly fetishist. Catwoman is a femme fatale. She can do good things or she can be completely selfish. She can run a long con and is a master thief. She is emotionally damaged and at best she is an antihero. She does not belong among the top tier heroes of the DCU of which Batman is. She should never be more than a side character is his books or a character on her own in a gritty crime world.
0 x
FU DC

User avatar
ARB
Justice League
Posts: 1859
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:13 pm
x 503

Re: Bat-books Talk

Fri May 31, 2019 10:53 pm

Nothing controversial about liking Catwoman. Even on this website, I realize that I'm in the minority who actually dislike the character herself. Most people are at most indifferent to her. Opinions on Catwoman only really started to sour after King's miserable time on Batman has started, and even then the majority blame King rather than the character for sucking. I'm rather in the minority who blame both.

I see a lot of people talking about how good Catwoman is without ever providing any substantial evidence to back their opinion up. The "good" Catwoman stories are all almost exclusively stories that feature BatCat prominently, that has been released only in the last 25 years or so. The single exception is Brubaker's "legendary" run on the character, which would've been considered just OK by the standards of any other character.

I've said before that nothing that King actually did with Catwoman and her relationship with Batman surprised me. I've foreseen this exact situation happening back in the mid 2000's when DC started showing first signs of cat fever. King did what any insane BatCat fan would've done, which is to cripple Bruce's character to create a semblance of parity between the two. That's the only way for the relationship to exist, and by extension maintain the relevance of Catwoman.

I could go on and on about how terrible a character Catwoman is, but I've already written enough. The short of it is, you're not in the minority for liking Catwoman, an unfortunate fact I'm all too aware of. So don't let my annoyed ramblings give you the impression that Catwoman is disliked by any majority of people. It's pretty much just me and a couple of others around here.
0 x
Image

User avatar
BatsGeek
Teen Titan
Posts: 120
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:43 pm
x 17

Re: Bat-books Talk

Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:44 am

They need to have Bruce go back to tossing her in jail. You can drag this story along with him reminding her that she'll be placed in handcuffs and walk away without wondering if she'll change. Not a bit of sadness. This should be the only kind of interaction between them. He should wonder, instead, about what suit he'll be wearing to his dinner date with Wondy.
0 x
Image

User avatar
Grendle1853
Justice League
Posts: 7673
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:53 pm
Justice League Membership: Martian Man-Hunter
Location: Harrisburg
x 80

Re: Bat-books Talk

Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:06 pm

I think for every good version of Batman, he has had to have a relationship with Catwoman. How far they get, and what that entails can change from version to version, but I feel that both characters need to make that journey. In pretty much all of them they shouldn't end up together. It worked in Earth 2 because Earth 2 was the really corny universe where they could get away with Catwoman having a completely character change and become a hero, most version could pull that off.
The only thing standing in the way of a good BM/WW relationship is the characters other love interests. In the New52 these two have had possibly negative levels of interaction and relationship building, but in one issue TOM KING of all people made it obvious that these two make a great pair.
0 x
Image
All thanks to Aries for helping me change my avatar.

User avatar
ARB
Justice League
Posts: 1859
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:13 pm
x 503

Re: Bat-books Talk

Sat Jun 01, 2019 4:01 pm

Ehh, not entirely sure what Batman gains from Catwoman's existence. I can agree however that the relationship, if it must exist, certainly is never meant to be anything more than a phase for Bruce before he realizes that it can never amount to anything more than a fling, and that the two are ultimately too different at their cores for one to change the other.

The reason why BMWW works so well as far as Bruce is concerned, is because it reinforces the good qualities in his character, and never gets in the way of his superhero duties. Look at any of the few instances we have of BMWW, and you'll see how Bruce is always portrayed as much healthier and more balanced whenever he's paired up with Diana, and the two always support each others' missions. Compare that to BatCat, which at best has Bruce tolerating Catwoman's crimes and looking the other way, and at worst (King's brand of BatCat), it not only casts Bruce's heroic acts in a negative light, but actively discourages and condemn his life as Batman and all the good that came from it. That's not healthy, no matter how you try to slice it.

I've said before that this is never been a matter of BatCat vs BMWW for me. It's simply easier to illustrate how awful BatCat is by comparing it to one of Bruce's best portrayed relationships, even when the damage it's done to Bruce's character is clearly evidence enough. At this point I'm willing to take anything other than BatCat, as long as DC shows the willingness to attempt something new with Bruce. Honestly the main reason I want BMWW to happen is that it will hopefully help kill BatCat and SMWW, two awful ships that's been haunting both Bruce and Diana. That alone makes it worth doing, regardless of how it would benefit the two outside of that.
1 x
Image

User avatar
RadicalLogic
Teen Titan
Posts: 242
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:52 am
x 40

Re: Bat-books Talk

Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:45 pm

I'm not even sure if DC even sees Catwoman as a villainess anymore. I mean, she's a thief, but she only robs "the bad guys" and "the rich oppressors". You'll never see her break into the shitty apartment of an overworked engineering intern at Wayne Enterprises and steal all of his savings which he was going to use to pay for his girlfriend's cancer treatment and buy his dad a new Jeep as a birthday present, because that might actually portray her a vile, heartless bitch who only cares about herself. Also, it'd make her and Batman permanent enemies, with no compromise except for Catwoman renouncing her ways.

And I'm pretty sure I complained about this before but what's up with comic book writers treating thievery as no big deal? Robbing people is terrible, apparently, but stealing their shit behind their back is A-OK, despite the only difference being that in one case you are holding them at gun-point, face-to-face, and in the other, you take their stuff without them even knowing. This isn't just a Catwoman-only thing, it's an annoying trend in the industry. All crime, no matter how big or small, should be denounced.
0 x
"Garlic deodorant. Jason says it wards off vampires up to ten feet away." - Black Canary

"I suspect it can ward off humans up to a hundred." - Batman

User avatar
MTVCCVC
Justice League
Posts: 4590
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:03 pm
Justice League Membership: Tim Drake [Red Robin]
Location: Sisak, Croatia
x 87

Re: Bat-books Talk

Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:14 pm

I know this is kind of derailing things, but how much have DC ruined Stephanie Brown since reintrodicing her in the current continuity?
0 x

no avatar
eurongreyo
Teen Titan
Posts: 276
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:58 am
x 68

Re: Bat-books Talk

Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:26 am

So in the new issue of Batman, among other stupid shit, King basically says Bruce always loved Selina over his children/wards. Oh and Joker and Selina are friends who trust each other. Holy shit......
0 x

User avatar
ARB
Justice League
Posts: 1859
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:13 pm
x 503

Re: Bat-books Talk

Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:22 pm

MTVCCVC wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:14 pm
I know this is kind of derailing things, but how much have DC ruined Stephanie Brown since reintrodicing her in the current continuity?
Never been a big fan of Steph, and she went on to become a bad aspect of Tim's character, who used to be my undisputed favorite Robin. So personally, I'm not too torn up over how DC's been treating her. I'm far more pissed off with how Babs and Cassie been treated.
eurongreyo wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:26 am
So in the new issue of Batman, among other stupid shit, King basically says Bruce always loved Selina over his children/wards. Oh and Joker and Selina are friends who trust each other. Holy shit......
The hilarious thing is, I saw King tweeting about how ALL the answers are finally here in issue 72 (not by choice mind you, Snyder and Sharp seem enamored with the guy and they keep on retweeting his drivel). If there's any silver lining her, it's that Tom King is truly, and utterly, and incompetent buffoon, so it doesn't matter how much DCLWB try to prop him up, as his own incompetence will always be his undoing.
1 x
Image

User avatar
ISAK
Titan
Posts: 894
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:35 pm
x 256

Re: Bat-books Talk

Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:13 pm

Oh, look who Tom King decided to bring back from the limbo in order to shit on for the sake of Catwoman and the Batcat ship. The Phantasm deserved better for her comic debut. Image
Last edited by ISAK on Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
0 x

no avatar
MrBlue1594
Sidekick Trainee
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:13 am
x 6

Re: Bat-books Talk

Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:25 pm

God, I’ve always wanted to see the Phantasm make her comic debut, but now? Why oh why did it have to be Tom King.
0 x
Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens- J.R.R. Tolkien

All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die- Roy Batty

User avatar
Dick Grayson(Age 12)
Titan
Posts: 506
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:18 pm
Location: Antarctica
x 60
Contact:

Re: Bat-books Talk

Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:13 pm

ISAK wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:13 pm
Oh, look who Tom King decided to bring back from the limbo in order to shit on for the sake of Catwoman and the Batcat ship. The Phantasm deserved better for her comic debut. Image
No No No No No. Oh, God please no.
0 x
GL:So, what's going on between you and Diana?

Bats:Nothing. She's a respected colleague.

GL: Uh-huh.

- BMWW in a nutshell

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest