WIP

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Ari
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WIP

Fri May 08, 2020 12:34 am

Ok so this is an unfinished fic I uncovered in one of my old writing journals from 2006 that I'd like some feedback on. As with Foreign Soil I've done a bit of editing to get it up to 2020 scratch as it was painfully obvious I was a teenager when I wrote it. Be thankful I didn't break out the angst filled song fic I wrote to 'Far Away' by Nickleback.

The whole idea behind the fic comes from 'The Once and Future Thing Part 2' which I can only assume I would've just seen at the time I wrote it. The idea is; old Bruce warns his younger self about what the Joker did to Tim. I don't care if they never spoke another word to eachother. I don't care if they never talked about Diana. I refuse to believe he would let that happen if he could prevent it. So in this fic Tim is saved but in order for the timeline to compensate the events of 'The Killing Joke' take place instead. Albeit with 0 Bruce/Babs hookups, I'm willing to allow that Barbara had a crush on Bruce, like he's a suave, good looking, mentor/authority figure; I'm an asexual aromantic and even I know that's some prime crush material but I refuse to believe anything ever came of it and she eventually got over it. With Barbara out of the Batgirl picture she becomes Oracle as she did in the comics and Cassandra Cain is able to enter the frame. Cass does exist in the animated universe, she had an uncredited but confirmed cameo as one of Bruce Wayne's freedom fighters in 'The Savage Time Part 1' and she appears in the tie in webseries 'Gotham Girls' but she's also my favourite Batgirl so I might just be reaching.

Important things to know before we start.
1. I have never actually seen Batman Beyond. Batman Beyond, or as it was called in NZ 'Batman of the Future' aired on the paid Sky network and my family could only afford our countries 3 free channels and we only ever got the 3rd one if the TV felt like it that day. All my knowledge of the series comes from the handful of episodes I was able to catch at friends houses and fandom osmosis.
2. This fic pair has the pairing Tim Drake/Cassandra Cain. At the time I wrote it neither Tim nor Cassandra had been adopted by Bruce yet. With the fact that they're both now officially Bruce's children in the comics I don't know whether I should keep it but I'm not sure who I could replace Cass with and I'm hesitant to include an OC. So thoughts on that would be appreciated.

Alright here we go

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


“Terry”


He stood before the monitor bank until he couldn’t. Until he was forced to slump back into his chair, defeated.


The battle continued across the myriad of jury rigged screens above him but he couldn’t bring himself to look at it. What would he see there? His younger self and Green Lantern fighting against the encroaching nothingness of the degrading time stream? Maybe things would be better when time finally did run out. Wasn’t that what it had been doing on him for all these years anyway?


It would be quick, painless, he might not even realise it was happening. Diana hadn’t.


Diana.


Snatched from him yet again and not a damn thing he could do about it. For an immortal she sure made a habit of dying. Still he’d been able to see her again if only for a few scarce hours. Wasn’t that something?


A little consolation prize in the face of tragedy. His life was littered with them. Just once he would have liked the jackpot, he’d told his younger self so but it seemed unlikely he would be getting the chance to work on that.


Any second now.


He’d never had to deal with this level of threat back before the League. None of his old Rogue’s gallery had ever set out to control time. Maybe he should have stuck to that. Forget investigating holes in the planetary defence system and finding kidnapped Martians. Hell so long as he was riding this train of thought forget chasing the Joker to Metropolis. How long had it been since he’d checked in with Lois? Hadn’t her little resistance cell helped them out recently?


It really was getting harder to keep the memories straight. Maybe it was finally happening, this was it, this was...


“How long have you been down here?”
Bruce looked up with a start. Gone was the makeshift monitor womb they’d set up in Terry’s old high school of all places. He really should have poured more money into public eduction. Instead he sat before the monitor bank in the Cave and staring down at him was


“Diana”


“Terry can take care of himself he doesn’t need you checking up on him. You’ll catch your death down here”
Her hair was short, not as short as her Lord counterpart had kept it but just off her shoulders and curled in a style that at first glance aged her to her late 30’s. At second glance however her face remained it’s eternal 25. Her clothing was likewise conservative and ageing but he could make out the glint of her bracelets under her jacket sleeves.


“I, I was...” Bruce glanced between her and the monitors the main one of which showed a dot traversing Neo Gotham.
“Worried, I know. But he’s safe and halfway to Dana’s”
Diana sported a wry smile and Bruce checked the monitor the dot was moving towards the waterfront. Dana Tan had clearly gone up in the world. Unable to keep his eyes away from her for long Bruce turned back to Diana.
“What are you doing here?” His tone was brusque but she merely turned her smile to him. She was wearing a pair of his Mother’s earrings.


“I came to collect you. You’ll need to head upstairs now if you want to be ready on time”
“Ready for what?”
“Bruce don’t tell me you’ve forgotten”
“Must be the dementia setting in” He said and Diana’s smile vanished
“You know I wish you wouldn’t joke about that”
“Sorry”
“Tim and Cass are dropping the girls off early and I don’t want to miss a minute. We may have lost Jasmine but we can still dote on the twins”
“Tim and Cass?”
“You threatened to fire him if he wouldn’t take a vacation, which I’m not sure you can technically do, I’m certain he owns more of Wayne Enterprises than you. I’m also not sure how much of a vacation they’ll have hiking to Machu Pichu but you know Cassandra”
“Tim? Timothy Drake?”
“Do we have any other sons named Tim?”
“We?”
“Did you catch a fever sitting down here all night?” Diana’s hand smooth and unblemished rested against his considerably less so forehead.


“All this technology and you can’t even set up a space heater” She chided before reaching down and manoeuvring him to his feet effortlessly. He reached blindly for his cane until it was pressed firmly into his hand. Bruce told himself it was his disorientation that allowed Diana to gracefully slip her arm through his unassisted one and lead him unwaveringly up the stairs to the library.


“You might not have time to shower but at least change your clothes, they smell damp and you don’t want to upset Annie, Cass says she’s only just got over a bad cough” Diana spoke as she led him slowly but surely through what Bruce could only call ‘Wayne Manor through the Looking Glass’. The grand Art Deco features he’d ignored in his youth and had left to ruin as he’s aged had been lovingly and painstakingly restored. Pieces of classical Greek art were scattered across hallways along with several pieces of varying origin he had to say he liked and he couldn’t remember the last time he’d considered an art piece as anything other than bait.


Where was all the light coming from? It was bright enough to make his eyes hurt. Before he knew it Diana had deposited him in what he realised was their bedroom.
“I’ve been thinking about calling Dick and asking if he and Babs want to drop the kids off since we’ve already got the girls. It’d be nice to have all the grandkids in one place but if Annie’s still coughing perhaps I shouldn’t. Don’t want her getting all excited when she should be resting poor thing. She’s just like you you know always trying to keep up...”
She left him sitting on the bed and made her way to the closet talking all the while.


“Dick, Babs. Grandkids!” Bruce muttered still trying to make heads or tails of the reality he found himself in. How was this bright welcoming space his bedroom? Where was all the medical equipment he’d come to rely on? Was that a damn wedding photo?


He reached for the frame, it lit up slightly at his touch showing himself 40 years younger in a tux next to Diana as he remembered her in a Greek inspired wedding gown, flowers woven through her hair. Then the image changed. Him and Diana with Alfred, looking happier than Bruce was sorry to say he had ever made him. Dick and Tim stood on either side of him and on either side of Diana was Barbara Gordon, in a wheelchair but Barbara none the less and a petite Asian girl who’s age ranged from eight to twelve. Bruce drank in the happiness shown on every face before him before the picture changed again.


Another wedding. Dick and Barbara’s he quickly realised. How long had it been since he talked to Dick? Decades, yet here he was in a photo standing proudly where his Father should have. The next photo loaded, yet another wedding. Tim’s. He stood a young man now next to a girl Bruce recognised from his and Diana’s wedding likewise grown up. Cassandra, he presumed. Then another family shot; himself and Diana, she’d started to dress and style her hair to match his age but she still looked like she was his daughter. The bride and groom stood on either side of Alfred, holding him up for the photo Bruce realised, he looked frail but still undeniably happy. Then there was a red haired boy grinning widely showing he was missing both his front teeth. Dick held a chubby red haired toddler stubbornly clutching a handful of smoshed petals and Barbara was noticeably pregnant.


Bruce noticed another digital frame, the first image was of an infant. He was too scared to pick it up.


“Do you think you’ll need a scarf? It’s starting the cool off” Diana was back laying clean clothes on the bed for him.
“I think I don’t need you fussing over me like a nursemaid” He groused trying to replace the frame he held without acknowledging the one that he knew would hold images of his alleged grandchildren.
“You’re right, we hardly have time” Diana gave him a wink that he had no idea what to do with and sauntered across the room draping herself down on a chaise lounge in a way only those with the power of flight could. They looked at each other across the room for what felt like several minutes until Bruce was forced to ask.
“Well?”
“Well what?”
“Aren’t you going to leave so I can change?”
“Why would I do that?”
“Because I’m old and decrepit?”
Diana sighed deeply and floated to her feet.
“Alright Bruce I’ll let you have your little mood. For now. But I expect you to get over it before the girls arrive. I won’t have you sulking around them”


She left the room and Bruce feeling more told than he had since Alfred had been alive. He steadfastly ignored the picture frame that seemed to whisper of laughter and long happy days and things he had forgotten first how to experience and later how to fake. Instead he dressed in the clothes Diana had laid out for him. Only realising as he carefully slipped into his jacket that the reason for his hesitant halting movement was gone.


The shoulder injury that had agonised him every time he felt the need to lift his arm had completely vanished. And now that he thought about it so had many of the other aches and pains that had become his true companion over the years. Not all of them he was somewhat relieved to note. But there was something about the ones that remained vs the ones that had vanished that was significant, if only he could work out what that was.


Before he could truly think on it the door opened and expecting Diana Bruce was surprised to see a dark skinned young woman with hot pink micro braids in a tailored suit enter. She held a silver coffee tray and had a data pad tucked under her arm.
“Good morning Mr Wayne” Said Maxine Gibson. Bruce could only watch as she laid the tray on a table that last he remembered had been home to assorted pill bottles but now held a vase of freshly cut and delicately arranged flowers before laying the data pad down and pouring him a cup of coffee. She added what looked to be his precise preferred amount of cream and held it up for him.
“Mrs Wayne says you spent the night in the cave again” Her voice held an undercurrent of disapproval but the instant he took the offered cup she turned back to the table and retrieved the data pad.
“As requested a full update on all active investigations. I’ve reviewed all of them and I suggest we question Chancer again, something in the Miller case isn’t adding up and he’s the only piece that doesn’t fit” She handed it to him the very picture of professionalism. And that professionalism was what spurred Bruce to take the pad and skim it’s display, a reliable form of muscle memory.
“Anything else?” He asked the young woman who was standing at ease like a soldier awaiting further orders. That at least was familiar to him.
“Mr Drake is due to arrive in 15 minutes and Mrs Wayne won’t be happy if you’re not downstairs by then” Max said with a hint of the sass he had known her for before Chronos had set up shop.
“I meant about the investigations”
“My notes are all included. Terry sent me all his relevant data before running off to convolave with Dana”
“Is that what the kids these days call it?”
“No just you bats. Will that be all Mr Wayne?”
Bruce nodded and gave a ‘yes that will be all’ yet another response that resounded from a place of muscle memory. Although a much rustier one. He hadn’t felt the need to say it since Alfred had died.


Bruce took a sip of his coffee and found it was just as he liked it and only Alfred had ever been able to serve it. Not even his own efforts over the many years had been able to replicate it. He’d never gotten the amount of cream and sugar just right and the growing unsteadiness of his hands had not helped matters. But that was yet another thing that was not as bad as it had been 24 hours ago. Bruce held the hand still clasping the data pad up. Nary a wobble.
“Through the looking glass” He muttered downing the rest of the coffee.


Diana was waiting in the foyer and he saw her tense as he descended the stairs, preparing no doubt to spring up and catch him should his walking stick and the banister not prove up to the job of keeping him upright. Like he needed the help, he’d been navigating these steps his entire life. He hadn’t fallen down them since he was four.
“Just in time” She mused as he reached the bottom step with a smile that could only be described as indulgent. Bruce got the distinct impression he was being humoured and for some reason that didn’t annoy him nearly as much as it should.


He let Diana link her arm through his and lead him out into the brisk morning where a car was pulling up the drive.
“Grandma! Grandpa!” A girl of all about six shot out of it the instant it stopped. Diana slipped her arm from his to catch her as she threw herself into a hug.
“Hello my little stars” She cooed
“I’m sun Grandma! Annie’s stars!” The girl protested. Diana pulled back with mock confusion.
“You’re Penny?”
“Yes! I’m Penny, your little sun remember?”
“Oh I see the difference now! Hello my darling little sun. Are you excited?”
“Is she? She barely slept last night”
Bruce’s breath caught in his throat as he saw a man exit the drivers side.


Tim.


But not Tim as he had seen him last, broken and remoulded by the Joker. This Tim stood straight and tall with the easy confidence that had once upon a time been tortured out of him. His mouth still held the little quirk the best plastic surgeons in the world hadn’t been able to salvage.
“I hope you were able to get some sleep” Diana hefted Penny on to her hip like she weighed nothing. Tim sighed
“We were up with Annie anyway. We’ll sleep on the jet. Thanks for taking the girls while we’re gone Mom” Diana pulled him into an easy side hug
“If your Father’s going to insist on you taking time off I’m going to insist on babysitting”
“Ah yes who would’ve thought we’d live to see the day? Batman insisting on vacations”
“Crime never took a vacation” Bruce caught himself saying.
“So neither did the bats” Tim laughed approaching him with a hand out. He took it without thinking.
“Good to see you Dad and how you’ve changed”


Dad.


Neither Dick nor Tim had ever referred to him that way even after each of their adoptions had been finalised. Something about hearing it caught in his chest.
“Although fair warning I may end up cursing your name before this trip is through”
“Baby” Scoffed an Asian woman Bruce recognised from Tim’s wedding photo. Cassandra. She too hugged Diana before approaching him tilting her head with a frown.
“OK?” She asked bluntly, evidently a woman of few words. Bruce got the feeling he was being thoroughly analysed as she looked him up and down. He tried to settle back into the lazy playboy lean he still knew how to hold but it didn’t seem to throw her off whatever trail she was following.


“Cass give me a hand with this and Jasmine this is happening so get out of the car”
As Cassandra made it back to the vehicle a lilac haired teenager got out and with a greatly exaggerated eye roll pulled a rucksack across her back and slammed the door.
“Behave” Cassandra warned. Jasmine stomped away in response as only a truly incensed teenager could. She practically threw her bag down at the steps and collapsed after it with a huff.
“And Diana was worried I would be the one sulking” Bruce commented dryly
“It’s not fair!” Jasmine burst out.
“Fair is something life seldom deigns to be” How many times had Alfred told him that? How many eye rolls had it gotten? It received one more as Jasmine sprung to her feet before him.
“I’m 14!”
“You’ll forgive me if I’m not impressed”
“When Dad was 14 he was Robin! Mom was Batgirl! When you were 14 you were travelling the world learning to be Batman! I’m 14 and I’m not even allowed to stay home alone for 2 weeks!”
“Truly a tragedy”
“Ugh!” Scowling she scooped her bag up and stomped into the Manor muttering the whole time about how no one understood anything least of all her. So that was the lost Jasmine.


“Grandpa look how much I can carry!” Penny called as she struggled to heave two full suitcases to the steps without letting them drag on the ground
“I’m as strong as Grandma!”
“Careful” Cassandra was there just as she started to tip steadying her. She took what was clearly the heavier bag causing her daughter to pout.
“I wanted to show Grandpa I could do it”
“Grandpa saw. Good job”
“You saw?” Penny asked eagerly hurrying over as fast as she could with the suitcase she still held. Bruce could only nod as that eager little face turned to him like a flower seeking sunlight
“Well done” He said causing Penny to break into a wide grin. She looked just like her Father.


“Annie! Annie didya hear!” She dumped the suitcase at his feet and sprinted back to the where Diana and Tim were helping another young girl out of the car. She looked nothing like her twin. Where Penny was slender ball of energy who easily reached the average height for her age this child was gaunt and stunted. Clearly frail and sickly her skin was pale enough to approach translucent making the brightly patterned tape securing an oxygen tube to her face stand out harshly. Tim was slipping her arms through the handles of the backpack it led to


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


That's all I've got so far, whatever ideas I might have had for this back in 2006 I can't remember all of them now. What I do remember is

The plan for Annie was to have had her involved in an attack by the Joker possibly at a hosipital when she was a baby leaving her and every other child involved with severe ongoing health problems. The Joker would have been killed in the attack falling victim to whatever he released himself.
Max would be in a sort of girl Friday/Oracle type position
Jasmine has a hugely obvious crush on Max (reason she dyed her hair) and constantly tries to act smooth around her.
Bruce asking Diana if she has any regrets about their life together and her only one is that they could never have children of their own
Dick and Bab's 3 kids come over and Terry turns up and they all indulge Penny who insists they play 'Batman' and argue over who gets what role in the Bat family for the game.
Annie who can't run around as much as everyone else spends most of her time with Bruce wanting to be told stories about his adventures.
Whatever else happens I'm certain I was going to end the story with Bruce telling Diana he feels like he won the jackpot in a neat little call back to the opening.

I am open to ideas and would love to hear your thoughts. Concrit welcome and probably needed.
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MTVCCVC
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Re: WIP

Sat May 09, 2020 5:28 pm

Ari wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 12:34 am
Her hair was short, not as short as her Lord counterpart had kept it but just off her shoulders and curled in a style that at first glance aged her to her late 30’s.
This feels odd to me. Seems like an unnecessary call back and really out of no where. Took me right out of it.
If the Justice Lords are no relevant to the story at hand, mentioning them off hand is just jarring.

I'll continue reading, but this just demanded a reaction from me.
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MTVCCVC
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Re: WIP

Sat May 09, 2020 6:03 pm

Ok, good start and I'm sufficiently interested to want to read on, though i don't feel the "when's the next chapter" bug.

All in all, not much to complain about, except that I can't really follow who is saying what when you have consecutive spoken sentences one after another.
I get that it can be a bit annoying to add the ', he said'/'she told' after every sentence with a quotation mark, but I feel kind of lost and not sure what character is saying what at times.

For instance, the banter with Jasmine I'm assuming is coming from Bruce, but it could just as well have been Tim they way it reads from my pov.

Outside of that, the occasional oddly structured sentence is not much to worry about.

The whole Tim/Cass thing is fine. The comics continuity, if one can even say such a thing without dying of laughter, should not be relevant to this continuity and most readers should be able to tell the difference.

I think that of the potential ideas you mentioned in the A/N at the end the one that is possibly troublesome is Dick and Barbara having 3 kids as well.
It seems a little copy-paste-ey and odd to have both families have 3 kids and you've already established quite a roster of characters with diverse personalities, adding 3 more atop of that might be a bit unwieldy and hard to follow.
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Ari
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Re: WIP

Sat May 09, 2020 11:32 pm

MTVCCVC wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 6:03 pm
Ok, good start and I'm sufficiently interested to want to read on, though i don't feel the "when's the next chapter" bug.

All in all, not much to complain about, except that I can't really follow who is saying what when you have consecutive spoken sentences one after another.
I get that it can be a bit annoying to add the ', he said'/'she told' after every sentence with a quotation mark, but I feel kind of lost and not sure what character is saying what at times.

For instance, the banter with Jasmine I'm assuming is coming from Bruce, but it could just as well have been Tim they way it reads from my pov.

Outside of that, the occasional oddly structured sentence is not much to worry about.

The whole Tim/Cass thing is fine. The comics continuity, if one can even say such a thing without dying of laughter, should not be relevant to this continuity and most readers should be able to tell the difference.

I think that of the potential ideas you mentioned in the A/N at the end the one that is possibly troublesome is Dick and Barbara having 3 kids as well.
It seems a little copy-paste-ey and odd to have both families have 3 kids and you've already established quite a roster of characters with diverse personalities, adding 3 more atop of that might be a bit unwieldy and hard to follow.

I'm pretty sure I was never going to add another chapter and just keep it as a slice of life oneshot, so I was probably intentionally staying clear of adding investment for them, it's been a while lol.

I can agree with you on mentioning the Lords, I think I was trying to give a clear reference to the reader as at the time the episode would have been an easy callback but as it's been years for the characters in the story you're right it doesn't make sense to mention them.

I thought that with Dick and Bab's kids too actually I debated removing one in the editing but kept it as I originally wrote but I think I'm going to whittle it down to just a girl and boy. I definitely wanted their daughter to be the flower girl at Tim and Cass's wedding but I think I then felt there would be too many girls over all so tried to balance it with two boys. I feel Tim having just girls while Dick has just boys would offer a similar problem.

I thought during the Jasmine/Bruce interaction it was clear they were at the steps of Wayne Manor while Tim was back at the car, would working more on describing the setting help make the dialogue clearer?
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Re: WIP

Mon May 11, 2020 5:10 am

Ari wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 11:32 pm
I thought during the Jasmine/Bruce interaction it was clear they were at the steps of Wayne Manor while Tim was back at the car, would working more on describing the setting help make the dialogue clearer?

Not really necessary when this basically solves it:

“I’m 14!” She protested as forcefully as she could.
“You’ll forgive me if I’m not impressed,” Bruce replies dismissively.
“When Dad was 14 he was Robin! Mom was Batgirl! When you were 14 you were travelling the world learning to be Batman! I’m 14 and I’m not even allowed to stay home alone for 2 weeks!” the teenager huffs.
“Truly a tragedy,” Bruce says, even more dismissively.


“Grandpa look how much I can carry!” Penny called as she struggled to heave two full suitcases to the steps without letting them drag on the ground
“I’m as strong as Grandma!”
“Careful” Cassandra was there just as she started to tip steadying her. She took what was clearly the heavier bag causing her daughter to pout.
“I wanted to show Grandpa I could do it”
“Grandpa saw. Good job” Bruce praises from afar.


Especially in example number 2 after rereading I found the spot that confused me most. You have Penny addressing Bruce, then Cassandra addressing her and then Penny replying to her. Without the 'he said' part, the "Grandpa saw" could have been Cassandra.
I understand that the sentence immediately after clarifies it, but this way you avoid the confusion in the first place with the addition of a few words.
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Re: WIP

Mon May 11, 2020 4:01 pm

MTV that is a great way of clarifying the dialogue without messing with the flow like he said she said would. I am impressed.
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Re: WIP

Tue May 12, 2020 12:27 am

MTVCCVC wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 5:10 am
Ari wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 11:32 pm
I thought during the Jasmine/Bruce interaction it was clear they were at the steps of Wayne Manor while Tim was back at the car, would working more on describing the setting help make the dialogue clearer?

Not really necessary when this basically solves it:

“I’m 14!” She protested as forcefully as she could.
“You’ll forgive me if I’m not impressed,” Bruce replies dismissively.
“When Dad was 14 he was Robin! Mom was Batgirl! When you were 14 you were travelling the world learning to be Batman! I’m 14 and I’m not even allowed to stay home alone for 2 weeks!” the teenager huffs.
“Truly a tragedy,” Bruce says, even more dismissively.


“Grandpa look how much I can carry!” Penny called as she struggled to heave two full suitcases to the steps without letting them drag on the ground
“I’m as strong as Grandma!”
“Careful” Cassandra was there just as she started to tip steadying her. She took what was clearly the heavier bag causing her daughter to pout.
“I wanted to show Grandpa I could do it”
“Grandpa saw. Good job” Bruce praises from afar.


Especially in example number 2 after rereading I found the spot that confused me most. You have Penny addressing Bruce, then Cassandra addressing her and then Penny replying to her. Without the 'he said' part, the "Grandpa saw" could have been Cassandra.
I understand that the sentence immediately after clarifies it, but this way you avoid the confusion in the first place with the addition of a few words.
I will try to work on clarifying dialogue and will try to mention who's saying what more often but I don't think I'll ever be comfortable providing some variation of 'said' after every line. You mentioned that my bringing up the Lords bought you out of the story, reading dialogue that does that is something that brings me out of a story. For me it takes what I want to feel like this and. makes. it. feel. like. this.

In the second example "Grandpa saw. Good job" was said by Cassandra, the next line is Penny asking Bruce for confirmation that he was indeed watching. Does knowing that clear up the confusion you originally felt or put you back at square one?

Thanks for taking the time to offer all the suggestions you have so far, I do appreciate the concrit ^_^
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Re: WIP

Tue May 12, 2020 3:12 am

DaisyJane wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 4:01 pm
MTV that is a great way of clarifying the dialogue without messing with the flow like he said she said would. I am impressed.
Thank you. I referred to it as "He said/She said" as I can't remember the term for the part of the sentence outside of the quotation marks.
Ari wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 12:27 am
I will try to work on clarifying dialogue and will try to mention who's saying what more often but I don't think I'll ever be comfortable providing some variation of 'said' after every line. You mentioned that my bringing up the Lords bought you out of the story, reading dialogue that does that is something that brings me out of a story. For me it takes what I want to feel like this and. makes. it. feel. like. this.
I get that and I am talking from my pov and writing style. I do think that you can use these 'he said/she said" parts of the sentence to give the text more flair, clarification and even control the flow of a conversation in a less jarring way, with a little bit of effort and creativity.

e.g. A short exchange between person A and person B:

"Is that truly, honestly what you think I'm like?!"

A short, awkward pause engulfs the room as person B is taken aback.

"No... But, kind of yes..."

-----

"Is that truly, honestly what you think of me?!" A asks forcefully, taking B aback and leaving him unsure what to say for a moment.

"No..." B responds apprehensively. "But, kind of yes..." he admits reluctantly.


You can represent the flow of the conversation 'indirectly" by using the length of the sentence to create a pause you would usually explicitly have to state. if you keep it short and sweet, it doesn't impede a fast flow at all.

Ari wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 12:27 am
In the second example "Grandpa saw. Good job" was said by Cassandra, the next line is Penny asking Bruce for confirmation that he was indeed watching. Does knowing that clear up the confusion you originally felt or put you back at square one?
It clears it up, but it still brings it back to square one in that it wasn't clear when I was reading it immediately.

“Grandpa look how much I can carry!” Penny called as she struggled to heave two full suitcases to the steps without letting them drag on the ground
“I’m as strong as Grandma!”
“Careful” Cassandra was there just as she started to tip, steadying her and taking the heaviest suitcase off of her daughter's hand.
“I wanted to show Grandpa I could do it” the little girl pouts
“Grandpa saw. Good job” her mother comforts and praises.
“You saw?” Penny asked eagerly hurrying over as fast as she could with the suitcase she still held. Bruce could only nod as that eager little face turned to him like a flower seeking sunlight.
“Well done,” he said causing Penny to break into a wide grin. She looked just like her Father.
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Re: WIP

Tue May 12, 2020 10:46 pm

MTVCCVC wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 3:12 am
DaisyJane wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 4:01 pm
MTV that is a great way of clarifying the dialogue without messing with the flow like he said she said would. I am impressed.
Thank you. I referred to it as "He said/She said" as I can't remember the term for the part of the sentence outside of the quotation marks.
Ari wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 12:27 am
I will try to work on clarifying dialogue and will try to mention who's saying what more often but I don't think I'll ever be comfortable providing some variation of 'said' after every line. You mentioned that my bringing up the Lords bought you out of the story, reading dialogue that does that is something that brings me out of a story. For me it takes what I want to feel like this and. makes. it. feel. like. this.
I get that and I am talking from my pov and writing style. I do think that you can use these 'he said/she said" parts of the sentence to give the text more flair, clarification and even control the flow of a conversation in a less jarring way, with a little bit of effort and creativity.

e.g. A short exchange between person A and person B:

"Is that truly, honestly what you think I'm like?!"

A short, awkward pause engulfs the room as person B is taken aback.

"No... But, kind of yes..."

-----

"Is that truly, honestly what you think of me?!" A asks forcefully, taking B aback and leaving him unsure what to say for a moment.

"No..." B responds apprehensively. "But, kind of yes..." he admits reluctantly.


You can represent the flow of the conversation 'indirectly" by using the length of the sentence to create a pause you would usually explicitly have to state. if you keep it short and sweet, it doesn't impede a fast flow at all.

Ari wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 12:27 am
In the second example "Grandpa saw. Good job" was said by Cassandra, the next line is Penny asking Bruce for confirmation that he was indeed watching. Does knowing that clear up the confusion you originally felt or put you back at square one?
It clears it up, but it still brings it back to square one in that it wasn't clear when I was reading it immediately.

“Grandpa look how much I can carry!” Penny called as she struggled to heave two full suitcases to the steps without letting them drag on the ground
“I’m as strong as Grandma!”
“Careful” Cassandra was there just as she started to tip, steadying her and taking the heaviest suitcase off of her daughter's hand.
“I wanted to show Grandpa I could do it” the little girl pouts
“Grandpa saw. Good job” her mother comforts and praises.
“You saw?” Penny asked eagerly hurrying over as fast as she could with the suitcase she still held. Bruce could only nod as that eager little face turned to him like a flower seeking sunlight.
“Well done,” he said causing Penny to break into a wide grin. She looked just like her Father.

I think we do have very different writing styles overall, we might have different reading styles too lol. I definitely preferred the first dialogue example you provided, I could read it with emotion as if it were being said to me whereas with your second one I struggled to put emotion into it, it was words on a page to me . In more than the physical sense :D

I know it's starting to look like I'm determined to turn around and push back against every piece of advice you're giving me but I am taking what you're saying to heart and am trying to include your suggestions in my editing
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Re: WIP

Wed May 13, 2020 9:08 am

Ari wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 10:46 pm
I know it's starting to look like I'm determined to turn around and push back against every piece of advice you're giving me but I am taking what you're saying to heart and am trying to include your suggestions in my editing
Not a problem. I'm used to arguing, so it doesn't impact me if people don't agree with me.
So long as you understand what i'm trying to say and why, i'm sufficiently satisfied.

Experiment and see what works.
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Re: WIP

Sun May 17, 2020 11:53 pm

MTVCCVC wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 9:08 am
Ari wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 10:46 pm
I know it's starting to look like I'm determined to turn around and push back against every piece of advice you're giving me but I am taking what you're saying to heart and am trying to include your suggestions in my editing
Not a problem. I'm used to arguing, so it doesn't impact me if people don't agree with me.
So long as you understand what i'm trying to say and why, i'm sufficiently satisfied.

Experiment and see what works.
We were arguing?
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Re: WIP

Mon May 18, 2020 2:13 am

Ari wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 11:53 pm
MTVCCVC wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 9:08 am
Ari wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 10:46 pm
I know it's starting to look like I'm determined to turn around and push back against every piece of advice you're giving me but I am taking what you're saying to heart and am trying to include your suggestions in my editing
Not a problem. I'm used to arguing, so it doesn't impact me if people don't agree with me.
So long as you understand what i'm trying to say and why, i'm sufficiently satisfied.

Experiment and see what works.
We were arguing?
No, we weren't.
I'm just saying I'm used to differences in opinion.
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