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Lloyd RPGFan
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Please leave a comment!

Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:54 pm

I just found/noticed this on DeviantArt:
http://www.deviantart.com/art/which-cou ... -429635710
Please leave a comment! Show your support for our favorite pairing! ;)
Last edited by Aries on Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Added link to comment
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Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:10 pm

Done. I voted for BM/ZZ... hehehe jk. BMWW all the way. :)
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Re: Please leave a comment!

Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:45 am

They certainly have a rabid SMWW shipper commenting on how Bruce should be with Selina because she was created to be with him. No she was created to be the femme fatale. It is also hypocritical because with that logic Superman should be with Lois Lane because she really was created to be with him. But no this guy claim WW was created and meant to be with Superman. Someone took a ride on the crazy train. :roll:
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Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:29 am

LOL Yup he is a little unbalanced me thinks. I love how SM/WW shippers dislike both Lois and Bruce. Makes me think they see what we do. Scary thought eh.
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Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:31 am

DaisyJane wrote:They certainly have a rabid SMWW shipper commenting on how Bruce should be with Selina because she was created to be with him. No she was created to be the femme fatale. It is also hypocritical because with that logic Superman should be with Lois Lane because she really was created to be with him. But no this guy claim WW was created and meant to be with Superman. Someone took a ride on the crazy train. :roll:
That's far from the only BMWW oriented art he's criticized. He seems to keep track of the new BMWW art that comes out just so he can say "that's cute, but it's not canon". :roll:

Where's the face-palm emoticon? :huh:

EDIT:
Damn, that guy is persistent. Also, is it just me or does he simply repeat the same argument over and over? He pretends to be a Batman/Catwoman fan when in fact - I'm convinced - he just hates Batman/Wonder Woman (considering he feels the need to leave a barely conceited insult in the comments of every BMWW art he finds).

And no matter how badly Diana is written (be it in Elseworlds or in the new52), he keeps using it as an example that "Superman and Wonder Woman belong together". Of course they'll "belong together" if you butcher the characters so much that they would be compatible with pretty much anyone, even villains. :roll:
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Re: Please leave a comment!

Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:18 pm

DaisyJane wrote:They certainly have a rabid SMWW shipper commenting on how Bruce should be with Selina because she was created to be with him. No she was created to be the femme fatale. It is also hypocritical because with that logic Superman should be with Lois Lane because she really was created to be with him. But no this guy claim WW was created and meant to be with Superman. Someone took a ride on the crazy train. :roll:
Is this the same guy who is trolling TA over his fan fics?
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Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:54 pm

I was going to say the same thing, he keeps writing paragraphs upon paragraphs that repeat the same point over and over again.

He seems delusional.
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Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:56 pm

It is like dealing with someone who has been brainwashed. Even when you show him facts that contradict what they believe (such as the idea of Clark and Lois getting married in the comics pre dates the TV show Lois and Clark) he just repeats his mantra that Diana and Clark were always meant to be. Uh no :roll: .
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Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:57 pm

Lloyd RPGFan wrote:Also, is it just me or does he simply repeat the same argument over and over?
GodDamnBAts wrote:I was going to say the same thing, he keeps writing paragraphs upon paragraphs that repeat the same point over and over again.
DaisyJane wrote:[...]he just repeats his mantra that Diana and Clark were always meant to be. Uh no :roll: .
Oh, good, at least I'm not delusional just yet! :D
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Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:54 am

this is my favorite part.
It would be interesting to know the more viable source of sales DC is using to check the performance of the SM&WW book and not only one source that shows low sales and then call it a failure.
here how you can measure if the sm/ww comic is a failure.. they where out sold and upstage by a juggalo name harley quinn. yes the "power couple" sale's where put to shame by a B- list batman character.
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Re: Please leave a comment!

Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:41 am

I left this comment for that sithous guy/girl who happens to be a sm/ww shipper.

I forgot to pick a pairing, but it's pretty obvious what I like since I'm here.

Here it is.

That's the problem, you rely on wiki instead of stats when it comes to sales. Wiki changes everyday.

Look up the monthly sales from the first sm/ww issue to current and you'll notice the book skydiving each month. The #1 issue can't even reach the Top 5 with all that hype and controversy with this so called first of it's kind comic.

Going back to sales, what's sad is the sidekick for a major super villain (The Joker) manages to not only outsell, but end up being the #1 book of the month. Harley Quinn has far less hype for her book and she's going strong in the Top 10 even after 3 issues.

The head honcho of the sm/ww sites always says the real fans will speak with their wallets; and they have. Nobody wants this.

I'm speaking as a disgruntled DC fan who wants them to stop relying on gimmicks and write proper stories that show heroes being heroes instead of douche bags with powers with dick measuring problems. You know it's bad when Batman is the nicest guy in the JL comics.

Whether sm/ww are "meant for each other" is another thing. If the Siegel/Shuster and the Marston family think it's wrong, then guess what? It's wrong.

This pairing is like if He-man and She-Ra hooking up. They're both strong, they have the same color palette, same hair color, same eye color, remove Supes breath and eye attacks and change his gender to female and you get Wonder Woman. Just because their both strong and good looking shouldn't be the only reason.

People like to bring up the High School Quarterback and Head Cheerleader deal with sm/ww as the perfect couple or what not.

Let me ask you this: How many High School Quarterbacks and Head Cheerleaders end up together after high school?

These characters where made to mingle with humans in order to keep their feet on the ground and learn from us in what it means to be a hero. Humans may not have their gifts, but they show them through their efforts that it isn't easy being human, but they deal with it.

When you are gifted with power from birth like these two characters, they won't benefit from each other. One or both characters will have to end up merging to a respective universe and that will destroy said character to it's core. If Diana ends up merging into Supes universe, she'll end up as a supporting character and losing her standing an independent lead female since it's not her turf anymore and vice versa for Clark.

They have to find their northern star in a human. When gods merge, it leads to a catastrophe, when a god merges with a human, it brings in the savior of the world. If you don't believe me, look at all epic fantasy tales in history. Greek, Asian, European, Middle Eastern, etc. It follows the same formula.

Humans teach these gods to be humble so they can better understand their role as heroes.

When this pair is together, they never have to touch the ground and they always end up in the sky and looking down at the mortals from above. They'll end up out of touch with the world around them. Think of CEO's who don't care about the little people.

On a different note, Diana's personality is too strong for someone like Clark to handle.

If he has problems with Lois, what more Diana? The worst case scenario was in Injustice, but Diana's personality can influence him more than he can influence her. She's more stubborn than he can handle. These characters need someone who forces them to touch the floor and meet them in eye level instead of floating above them like ungrateful gods.

Notice in past, present, and future iterations of Diana. She never or rarely calls him Clark. She always calls him "Kal". His alien name, granted it's his given name, but he goes by Clark Kent since it was given to him by his human parents who brought him up in humble beginnings and raised human.

He would never think of himself as a god and Diana doesn't see him as human

The only way this "pairing" would work is if Clark Kent "dies" and Kal takes over, but that would destroy everything that makes him Superman; his human side.

If you're thinking of bringing up Kingdom Come or The Dark Knight Strikes like 9/10 sm/ww shippers, let me tell you this:

That's Elseworld and is not a template or guideline to this fap pairing.
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Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:21 am

Now that's a passionate response! :D
playmaker2k wrote:If you're thinking of bringing up Kingdom Come or The Dark Knight Strikes like 9/10 sm/ww shippers, let me tell you this:

That's Elseworld and is not a template or guideline to this fap pairing.
I gave up arguing with him, but I did notice a very important detail about his arguments. He claims that Superman and Wonder Woman's past history from the pre-Flashpoint continuity shows how important they are to each other and that, despite Lois, they belong together. Whenever someone brings up Lois, he argues that the new52 is a new continuity that has nothing to do with the old outdated one.

That's where his argument fails: if it's a new universe, then Superman and Wonder Woman don't have a "past history" that proves that they "belong together". You can't base a pairing in one continuity over events that happened in a different continuity. In the new52, the only interaction between Superman and Wonder Woman has been nothing but a lame-o pastiche of Twilight.
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Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:59 am

Post his response if he makes one. Its entertaining.
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Re: Please leave a comment!

Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:16 pm

Lloyd RPGFan wrote:I gave up arguing with him, but I did notice a very important detail about his arguments. He claims that Superman and Wonder Woman's past history from the pre-Flashpoint continuity shows how important they are to each other and that, despite Lois, they belong together. Whenever someone brings up Lois, he argues that the new52 is a new continuity that has nothing to do with the old outdated one.
Most of them are delusional and believe that. The problem is this so called "reboot" is just rehashing pre-flashpoint and silver age story lines and twisting it around to fit this new continuity in a half-ass way.

The only thing they changed was their personalities and decided to pull an elseworld pairing and make it canon for a quick buck at the expense of character assassination to shock the masses and appease a small minority of followers who salute the new regimen with blind loyalty for the new "status quo".

Why think when you can hit something first? Simple logic for simple minded people, I guess.

Their mindset is it doesn't matter how screwed up the DC Universe gets or if humanity is led to extinction as long as they're together because they're the "power couple" who were "meant for each other".

They can rule the world as King Superman and his new supporting cast member/wife: Queen Wonder Woman.

Yay.

Same song different singer.

Seriously, there are people out there that think this way and it's too late for them.

At this point, they're nothing more then mindless chunks of processed meat.

The Spam Army Rises.

They also have the gall to try to convince themselves that anything that happened between bm/ww doesn't count and it was all in the cartoon. That kiss in Blackest Night didn't mean anything even when the masses, (not the minority) found this appealing and filled with fresh new potential story lines that would not only benefit both characters, but rake in a lot of cash for DC. It's a win/win, but they dropped the ball.

I find it amusing how bitter they get with it comes to the JLU cartoons. Spin it around and have the Timm universe filled with sm/ww and they'll worship Bruce and call him a genius. Best. Cartoon. Ever. smh

War is trash. That is all.
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Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:39 am

Okay, here's part of our discussion, it branches out quite a lot, so do check out DeviantArt if you want the "full experience" (ragdollfun is me btw ;)):
Sithous wrote:Batman and Catwoman are meant for eachother always.

......Just as Superman & Wonder Woman.

Batman and Diana makes absolutely no sense at all not even in the cartoons.
ragdollfun wrote:Correction: Lois Lane and Superman were meant for each other!
Sithous wrote:And yet Superman and Wonder Woman were created and meant for each other!
ragdollfun wrote:Superman and Wonder Woman weren't created or meant for each other. They are totally separate characters from two different authors who had totally different intentions for them.

If you want to have a good idea of whom Wonder Woman really is, try reading this article: talkingtothevoid.blogspot.com.…

Lois Lane was specifically created to be Superman's love interest, while Steve Trevor was created to be Wonder Woman's love interest. That's whom they are meant for.
Sithous wrote:And thus neither lois nor trevor can be any other thing than just the arm candy because they were "created for that reason" while there are people who are sooo fanatic about them and doesn't realise that their job, seems boring and waste of time thinking they're so great when as you say they're only to be the shoulder to cry on, or the mouth to kiss and the person to save, now THAT it's boring and no wonder why lois has been given sometimes accidental powers or now turned into a red tornado otherwise she is just a reporter and she doesn't even bring up news to the daily planet.

Even if the creators come with different intentions for them, it does seems reasonable how in time they seemed to have found eachother through time and always with a strong connection and feelings and understanding, respect, trust and love for each other. Even if they weren't specifically created for that they found their way and readers liked it and sales proved it compared how it was before when DC's top hero was not doing so well in story, plots and sales so in a editorial retreat they came up with the idea of the reboot first because of Superman because things weren't working well including the marriage then they decided to reboot the entire line but it all started because of Superman.

Now Diana is doing better, Superman is doing better in the media, their book together is having good reviews and solid sales and readers are still interested in that than just lois and trevor. Who knows how it's gonna be in MOS now that Geoff Johns is an executive producer, one of the persons behind the new status quo and Diana now part of the movie....
ragdollfun wrote:You're so missing the point. While it is true that Steve Trevor never got any worthwhile character growth since the Golden Age comics (the reason why Pérez dropped him as a love interest to make him a father figure instead), that is not the case of Lois Lane. Lois is a character who has gained a lot since her first appearances and is one of the most popular DC supporting characters, to the point that it earned her her own comic book(s) (for a total of about 140 issues). She is one of the very, very few DC characters who doesn't wear a fancy costume to have reached this point.

Lois Lane is not just eye-candy or a damsel in distress. Not only has she also saved Superman more than once, but she is first and foremost the person who grounds Clark to his humanity. She is the one who brings balance to his life. Without her, Superman is not humanity's champion anymore, he just yet another god-like alien.

Diana can't give this to Superman, because she needs someone to remind her of her humanity even more than he does. With Diana, "Clark Kent" is just another mask, instead of being the man he grew up into. Superman can't be a hero without Clark Kent, because if he has no connection to humanity, if he is not part of humanity, then why bother saving us at all?

As for Diana, the new52 reboot has completely destroyed her character. Instead of being the champion of peace and the ambassador of the Amazons, she is now the reject of Themyscira and the Goddess of War. Instead of being a wise and caring woman who tries to solve her problems with diplomacy, she has become a blood-thirsty brat who strikes first and asks questions later and throws herself at every "strong male" she meets (Superman, Orion and even her half-brother! Apollo). The Superman/Wonder Woman pairing managed to make things even worse by reducing Diana to a swooning groupie. In the new SM/WW comic book, she has been shown as nothing more than a glorified sidekick while Superman always takes the lead.

In a way, you're right. Superman (not Clark Kent though) has benefited from this union. He's now the perfect male specimen who has finally conquered and tamed the most beautiful woman. But in the process, DC had to turn Superman into an emo bully douchebag who cares more about his secret ID than about saving people to make him more attractive to this "new" Wonder Woman who doesn't even act the part, because the only things they ever had in common were similar powers and costumes, nothing to base a relationship on.

You know what about the sequel to Man of Steel, Lois will not step down. She is far too popular. And what has been proved by several TV series and movies is that Clark doesn't work without her.

Last thing: Superman is not DC's top hero. He is the most powerful superhero of the DC universe, but he is not the one who brings them the most money or who has the largest number of comic books associated to him. It's Batman, despite Geoff Johns' blatant attempt at sabotaging the character in his Justice League run.
Sithous wrote:Are you refering to the comic entittled: "Superman's Girlfriend lois lane" wich for being a series of books about lois it also ended up having Wonder Woman in it and her playing a part of Superman's girlfriend right infront of lois? of them flying playing tennis or something like that. It was way before my time so I don't know much about the book only what I've found because of Diana and Kal's relationship. A lois lane book...and then what happens? Wonder Woman is in it too hehe. I don't know how well that went but I have yet to see a lois lane only book where the main story is her without Superman, without Diana just her and her stories and adventures and challenges in wich she doesn't need the help of superman at all in order to save her but her own wits and resourcefullnes. She doesn't need a costume because the one with the costume is there for her instead of her own. She is indeed popular there's no denial of that, she started as Superman's +1 so whenever there was superman lois was not far behind but rarely ahead. Compared to Diana who is a main character in her own right and now as a couple.

Hehe as for her grounding him to humanity...so who raised him all these years since arriving from Krypton? He is grounded to humanity because of the Kents and the way they raised him, his morals, his principles, his look to humanity, his self confidence as a man thanks to Lana, his acceptance of friendships thanks to Pete Ross, Jimmy and Perry. As we can see in forever evil, without the kents his altarnate evil version just wouldn't care about humanity even when lois is right there at the planet. As for lois, she is just another person in the life of Superman, she isn't exactly the only one that brings balance to his life, Lana also play a part of that, lois played hers, Diana before the new 52 has been also an important part in his life for they have learned from each other and he sets an example to her and other heroes,in the new 52 with his relationship it's him who is trying to bring Diana to the humanity side for she is young and have the cultural shock that as an Amazon she is unique and no reason to hide wich is one of Kal's parts of life...hiding in order to live among humans, to blend in. There are more humans Kal cares about than only just one in order to protect earth.

Somehow I see that people seem to miss the point that it's a reboot. Origins, new beginnings, stories, arcs, traits and flaws and they still hoping it would be like before the reboot, I don't, I don't expect to see the same characters before the reboot once again repeated in a new universe then what's the point? for that reason I'm okay of all the changes they have put in here some are good some are bad and yet all are subjective to the reader's perception. I do like the new Diana no longer made of clay but actually had a father and a mother, trained by Ares so she is still a warrior, an Amazon and a princess, to me it was kinda of boring that she was sent out of themiscyra as an ambassador and her costume was out of respect for the nation now she is wearing an armor because that's her armor, once again I like that and maybe you don't but that's because of perception wich I could argue but it would derail to another topics that I'm sure you wouldn't have considered.

I seem to remember her talking and giving advice to some young girls in a self defense class given by her fellow Amazon Hessia in SM&WW #4 about self worth, uniqueness and confidence, without any previous knowledge she looked after Zola and helped her recover her demigod son. Hehe...Orion...I don't think she is drawn nor interested in Orion and if you're thinking about that kiss it was a ruse so he would distracted and grab him and teach him a lesson in respect wich was the second strike after he slapped her butt, it doesn't mean she can't be supportive and encouragin but it's far from being attracted and have feelings as she said in Superman #20 "friend isn't really a word I would use to describe him". There seems to be a bigger picture yet to see in the first arc and just 5 issues of Superman and Wonder Woman facing basically HIS enemies instead of hers, they are HIS problems wich as a couple have become her problems as well, another two Kryptonians and a monster from the phantom zone, the time we have seen Superman facing her enemies is with cheeta biting him and turning him into a super cheeta and with apollo for insulting Diana, there're still more stories to tell and Soule have mentioned he has plans in using her gallery of enemies in future stories.

It's trully interesting how some see Superman turning into an emo bully superman while others see him turning into a Man with a back bone and not longer a push over or a simple boy scout wich according to Jim Lee those were some of the problems with Superman and the sales proved it to be a lot in order to go to a full reboot. How bad things must have been for superman to instead changing teams they went to a full relaunch? I don't know because personally I care very little about it before the new 52 because it was to me boring and now I find it more interesting and appealing. Secret identities are important to heroes who have them Batman has gassed Batgirl and Catwoman in the old tv series, blindfolded her in the new 52, Superman has allowed parasite to suck the psionic powers out of lois curing her and getting her out of the coma that most likely would've kill her and as an added bonus keep his secret ID save from a major exposè for allies and enemies to find out. And yet, Clark told Diana almost right away about his secret ID and how it just helps a little because he still needs to keep secrets to others compared of being himself fully with Diana.

We have yet to see, it's likely you're right but we'll see once Diana is in the movie for her first time in the big screen something that it seems it's difficult for hollywood to create a sucessful/profitable female lead hero movie after several attempts with other heroines. As for lois...ha! she is easy...just make a superman movie and she is there how good the performance or how good the writing and casting once again that's subjective.

In my opinion Superman is DC top hero, the first hero, yes he is the most powerful but he is the top hero. However Batman is the most popular and the one with the more comic books and enemies...he is the most flawed of the heroes so it's obvious he'll have the more rogues that show the flaws, I did liked watching "Necessary evil" documentary with Christopher Lee narrating. Batman is the less perfect so he has more enemies to show one side of each, then Superman is the most powerful and he has the most powerful enemies, Diana is mostly the most perfect and he has less enemies compared to Superman and Batman. Yes it brings the most money and I'm not a Batman hater it's true because I like Batman but I like Superman more, I like Batman and Selina as much as I like Superman and Wonder Woman. His sucess in the comic books didn't seemd to keep them from launching a reboot but at least he is doing well in his books so there's something no to worry about the human vigilante that obviously more humans would relate to compared to a kyptonian, a foreigner in another planet who now has found some romance in another also unique Amazon Woman.
I ran out of energy at this point (if anyone has a good argument to oppose him, feel free to do so or suggest something here).

What irks me the most is that he deliberately mentions SMWW completely out of context just to rile up BMWW fans. *sigh* :roll:
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Wonder Woman: You know, we never did get to finish our dance.
Batman: [showing no reaction] I don't know what you're talking about.
Wonder Woman: If you say so. [takes his arm] But you're still taking me dancing.

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Re: Please leave a comment!

Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:48 pm

The fact that he fails to see the brilliance of Lois in her seemingly normal profession and life just goes to show how all the people who oppose her and Clark can't appreciate more realistic and powerful (personality wise) characters. More bombastic characters like Supes make more of an impression than characters who don't have any powers. There's also the fact that its very easy to make both Supes and WW Mary Sue's and I'm pretty sure that's how SM/WW shippers like it.

Poor grammar made that difficult to read, too. 3/10, at least hes dedicated.
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Re: Please leave a comment!

Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:57 pm

Lloyd RPGFan wrote:
Lloyd RPGFan wrote:
Sithous wrote:And thus neither lois nor trevor can be any other thing than just the arm candy because they were "created for that reason" while there are people who are sooo fanatic about them and doesn't realise that their job, seems boring and waste of time thinking they're so great when as you say they're only to be the shoulder to cry on, or the mouth to kiss and the person to save, now THAT it's boring and no wonder why lois has been given sometimes accidental powers or now turned into a red tornado otherwise she is just a reporter and she doesn't even bring up news to the daily planet.

Even if the creators come with different intentions for them, it does seems reasonable how in time they seemed to have found eachother through time and always with a strong connection and feelings and understanding, respect, trust and love for each other. Even if they weren't specifically created for that they found their way and readers liked it and sales proved it compared how it was before when DC's top hero was not doing so well in story, plots and sales so in a editorial retreat they came up with the idea of the reboot first because of Superman because things weren't working well including the marriage then they decided to reboot the entire line but it all started because of Superman.

Now Diana is doing better, Superman is doing better in the media, their book together is having good reviews and solid sales and readers are still interested in that than just lois and trevor. Who knows how it's gonna be in MOS now that Geoff Johns is an executive producer, one of the persons behind the new status quo and Diana now part of the movie....
[/quote]

Oh GOD. They're thinking it too :vomit:
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Re: Please leave a comment!

Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:08 pm

I don't know if this person is just really young or just really naive.
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Re: Please leave a comment!

Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:54 pm

Okay. Sure, MOS could go SMWW, but what are the chances of that?

Lois is a popular part of the SM franchise, and she's played by Amy Adams. Do WB want to piss off a mainstream audience - and one of Hollywood's most critically-acclaimed stars - to appease a few shippers? It isn't even proving popular amongst comic readers. They set up Lois & Clark at the end of MOS, they aren't going to just ditch that to do SMWW, especially since Lois & Clark are so ingrained in pop culture. Putting him with anyone else would seem like cheating.

And as for Geoff Johns being executive producer, this is how Wikipedia defines it: In Motion Pictures, an executive producer oversees the filmmaking with regard to film finance. They liaise with the line producer and report to production companies and distributors.

So, he could just be the liaison between DC Entertainment & WB. He might not have anything to do with the storyline or product.
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Re: Please leave a comment!

Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:00 pm

Are you refering to the comic entittled: "Superman's Girlfriend lois lane" wich for being a series of books about lois it also ended up having Wonder Woman in it and her playing a part of Superman's girlfriend right infront of lois? of them flying playing tennis or something like that. It was way before my time so I don't know much about the book only what I've found because of Diana and Kal's relationship. A lois lane book...and then what happens? Wonder Woman is in it too hehe. I don't know how well that went but I have yet to see a lois lane only book where the main story is her without Superman, without Diana just her and her stories and adventures and challenges in wich she doesn't need the help of superman at all in order to save her but her own wits and resourcefullnes. She doesn't need a costume because the one with the costume is there for her instead of her own. She is indeed popular there's no denial of that, she started as Superman's +1 so whenever there was superman lois was not far behind but rarely ahead. Compared to Diana who is a main character in her own right and now as a couple.

Weren't those usually dream sequences or someone was drugged out to act out of normal? Diana is a main character. She has her own story and mythology and maybe the writers and editors should have taken the time to explore that instead of shacking her up to Superman where she then just becomes a sidekick. If Lois was behind Supes, Diana is too now

Hehe as for her grounding him to humanity...so who raised him all these years since arriving from Krypton? He is grounded to humanity because of the Kents and the way they raised him, his morals, his principles, his look to humanity, his self confidence as a man thanks to Lana, his acceptance of friendships thanks to Pete Ross, Jimmy and Perry. As we can see in forever evil, without the kents his altarnate evil version just wouldn't care about humanity even when lois is right there at the planet. As for lois, she is just another person in the life of Superman, she isn't exactly the only one that brings balance to his life, Lana also play a part of that, lois played hers, Diana before the new 52 has been also an important part in his life for they have learned from each other and he sets an example to her and other heroes,in the new 52 with his relationship it's him who is trying to bring Diana to the humanity side for she is young and have the cultural shock that as an Amazon she is unique and no reason to hide wich is one of Kal's parts of life...hiding in order to live among humans, to blend in. There are more humans Kal cares about than only just one in order to protect earth.

Clark is like most kids; they don't get to pick their parents. Parents don't get to pick their kids either. You sort of get what you get in that regard. Some Earth "normal" parents give up their kids all the time because they don't want to deal with them/can't afford them, whatever. Clark lucked out in getting two of the good ones. So yeah the Kents grounded him and gave him a moral compass, but with all that power it can easy for him to loose sight of the people he's trying to protect. He already has in the N52 with him floating around everywhere like a jackass. It's looks like he feels to good to touch pavement like the rest of humanity.


yeah, i kind of lost my point here, maybe you can fix it? i was going to say something about the Kents gave him his humanity but lois reaffirms it. she chooses him, even with all the alien stuff. it's like a representation of humanity as a whole? lois takes him in and he feels closer to humanity, which makes him more powerful? Because he feels more confident? Someone who didn't have to be with him decided to "jump into the boat" with him anyway?

I mean, to me, clark is a person of simple pleasures. I mean if he could have picked his own life he would have just gotten married and had some kids. Give or take the big city life. He might have gone just to see what was out there. He might have gone into farming.

You have to look at Clark without the powers (even though he was born with them). Once you know who he is without them, you know who he is with them.

and smww fans are expecting them to be together for >500 years or something. that's ridiculous!

Actually! Here's a question for all of us! If you stripped the powers from Clark and Diana would they be compatible

Did Jimmy and Perry even know?! Jimmy might have eventually, but I don't think Perry ever did. I could be wrong

Lana...if they're talking about the n52 Lana, they should know that that is just Lois as an engineer calling herself "Lana." Also, Lois came first, and Lana was usually just a small town girl copy of Lois.


Somehow I see that people seem to miss the point that it's a reboot. Origins, new beginnings, stories, arcs, traits and flaws and they still hoping it would be like before the reboot, I don't, I don't expect to see the same characters before the reboot once again repeated in a new universe then what's the point? for that reason I'm okay of all the changes they have put in here some are good some are bad and yet all are subjective to the reader's perception. I do like the new Diana no longer made of clay but actually had a father and a mother, trained by Ares so she is still a warrior, an Amazon and a princess, to me it was kinda of boring that she was sent out of themiscyra as an ambassador and her costume was out of respect for the nation now she is wearing an armor because that's her armor, once again I like that and maybe you don't but that's because of perception wich I could argue but it would derail to another topics that I'm sure you wouldn't have considered.

YEAH. THAT BOLDING UP THERE?! That told me right away that they don't even get the point of WONDER WOMAN, so they should just shut the fuck up, or go read some Mr Majestic/Zealot bullcrap if all they're in for is some "power couple" crap. This reboot has completely destroyed essence of these characters. The only thing that makes these guys "Superman" "WW" or whoever, is that that's what supporting or background characters call them. "Superman" is "Superman" in name only. He's definitely not Superman in character.

I seem to remember her talking and giving advice to some young girls in a self defense class given by her fellow Amazon Hessia in SM&WW #4 about self worth, uniqueness and confidence, without any previous knowledge she looked after Zola and helped her recover her demigod son. Hehe...Orion...I don't think she is drawn nor interested in Orion and if you're thinking about that kiss it was a ruse so he would distracted and grab him and teach him a lesson in respect wich was the second strike after he slapped her butt, it doesn't mean she can't be supportive and encouragin but it's far from being attracted and have feelings as she said in Superman #20 "friend isn't really a word I would use to describe him". There seems to be a bigger picture yet to see in the first arc and just 5 issues of Superman and Wonder Woman facing basically HIS enemies instead of hers, they are HIS problems wich as a couple have become her problems as well, another two Kryptonians and a monster from the phantom zone, the time we have seen Superman facing her enemies is with cheeta biting him and turning him into a super cheeta and with apollo for insulting Diana, there're still more stories to tell and Soule have mentioned he has plans in using her gallery of enemies in future stories.

And yet WW and Orion had more chemistry going for them in less issues and panel time than S and WW in five issues of their own book and in JL. Also that quote about one's problems becoming the other's problems came from Batman IN the S/WW book. Batman gets WW more than Superman! Batman and WW have barely spoken since the n52 and they already have a better understanding of each other!


It's trully interesting how some see Superman turning into an emo bully superman while others see him turning into a Man with a back bone and not longer a push over or a simple boy scout wich according to Jim Lee those were some of the problems with Superman and the sales proved it to be a lot in order to go to a full reboot. How bad things must have been for superman to instead changing teams they went to a full relaunch? I don't know because personally I care very little about it before the new 52 because it was to me boring and now I find it more interesting and appealing. Secret identities are important to heroes who have them Batman has gassed Batgirl and Catwoman in the old tv series, blindfolded her in the new 52, Superman has allowed parasite to suck the psionic powers out of lois curing her and getting her out of the coma that most likely would've kill her and as an added bonus keep his secret ID save from a major exposè for allies and enemies to find out. And yet, Clark told Diana almost right away about his secret ID and how it just helps a little because he still needs to keep secrets to others compared of being himself fully with Diana.

Just because he's boy scout doesn't mean he doesn't have a backbone. When did doing the right thing become so wrong?

I don't have any arguments for people "seeing Superman as more of a man" because I am not a man. An actual man might have better arguments than me.

Superman sales dropped because World of New Krypton and Grounded were ass story lines that basically removed Supes from his (mostly human!) supporting cast!


and... that's all i got
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